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Advice Purchasing Hanse 400

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devonh View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 January 2017 at 00:01
Hi All, 

I am in discussions with a broker about a 2011 Hanse 400 that i am thinking of heading to Europe to view in a couple of weeks. We plan to cruise the mediteranean for the summer and probably sail back to New Zealand over the next 2 years.

Ive been trolling through the forums and have picked  up a lot of good information so far on what to look out for (window leaks) and some of the quirks/ traits of these boats.

Can anyone offer advice or tips for boats built in this time and what i should keep my eyes out for? Also to the owners of this era 400 how do you like them? So far the reports seem to be great.

Any help much appreciated!

Devon
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iemand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iemand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2017 at 09:31
On a 2011 Hanse 400 the windows are the same as all new Hanses. You might not expect any leaking problems anymore.

One issue might be the cockpit lockers in the floor aft and maybe the twin steering.

BR Thomas
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StavrosNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2017 at 21:15
Obviously you want check for normal wear and tear, signs of grounding, collision damage etc however some points that I think are key to check:

1. The hulls are solid glass below the waterline and a cored above the waterline, if my memory serves me correctly the "e" versions are foam core where as vinylester boats are a balsa core. Any fitting that goes through the hull, tank vents, transom drains, stern ladder lugs, anchor locker drain etc are all drilled through the core. Hanse don't then epoxy or seal the core before fitting the fittings (this would add 24hrs to a build) instead they rely on sika and hope that these fittings wont leak. I would ask the surveyor to pay special attention with moisture meter to these area to see if there are any signs on leaks and moisture.

2. Look for damage around aluminium toe rail and fairleads, the fairleads should not be used, they are only put on with self tapping screws into the glass of the deck and hull, rope side loading makes screws leak and edges of the fairleads are very narrow and cut the berth lines. Simply don't use them just put your lines straight onto the cleats.

3. check all skin fittings, ball valves and hose tails on the ball valves carefully, Hanse and most European boat builders use brass of varying grades and quality and electrolysis and breakage are common.

For the reasons of both 1, 2&3 I would add to the purchase budget price to have the boat hauled once you buy it, all through hulls, ball valves and tails replaced with glass filled nylon fittings ("true design" brand are designed and built for marine market, super strong and will last the life of your boat) I would also have all of the through hull fittings above the waterline removed, the holes epoxy sealed and fittings refitted. I would also remove the toe rail screws one at a time and coat them in sika and screw them back in, there is no sealer on the from the factory.

4. check sail drive, SD50 version uses a cone clutch which is design flaw, many owners are having to have slipping clutch re-lapped or replaced every few hundred hours. Check for electrolysis on saildrive, to meet EU shore power laws Hanse puts a connecting strop (cable) between the DC and AC buzz bars, this means saildrive anode not only has to protect the saildrive and engine but keel and rudder shaft as well. its an easy fix, remove strop between the buzz bars and all is well.

5. floorboards - up to 2013 Hanse used a board for the floors that's quite weak, heavy people, people jumping in or larger areas that are unsupported can and do crack, check for this carefully. easy fix, glue marine ply to bottom and make them stronger.

6. Lewmar syncro blocks fitted until Selden were given the business by Hanse are junk, they are weak and break after a couple of summers in the sun, budget to replace these with Selden blocks which are very good.

7. if it has the under deck furler you will need to modify the turning block in the anchor locker from fixed to pivoting and replace the factory through deck block which is way to small to over come having to use a winch to wind your furler in.

8. Selden rig upgrade is much better than Sparcraft rig and was offered as an upgrade, if you can find one its well worth it.

 9. On this generation boats the rudder, keel, hull anode and engine are all earthed together, you will see yellow and green stripped wires all labelled i.e keel on your electrical buzz bar under the instrument panel behind chart seat. The engine earth goes to the negative DC Buzz, the rudder, keel and hull anode all go the the AC earth Buzz, some genius at Hanse then connected the AC and DC buzz bars together with a large 12mm yellow and green strap. What this means is that the rudder, keel, engine/saildrive and hull anode are all earthed together. Yammer use aluminium anodes for the sail drive, the aluminium sail drive anode is lower on the sacrificial scale than zinc (hull anode) so the hull anode does not wear and infact does nothing whilst the sail drive anode which was only ever designed to protect the sail drive/engine alone is now trying to protect the sail drive, engine, keel and rudder and guess what, it wastes away in about 3 months.

Answer is simple, disconnect the large earth strap between the buzz bars, this will result in separating the circuits so that sail drive anode only has to deal with sail drive/engine (DC buzz only) and hull anode now deals with rudder and keel separately. When new i was replacing sail drive anodes every 3 months, since separating the 2 buzz bars my sail drive anode goes 18-24 months and hull anode about the same.

Whilst this might seem like a lot to do to a new boat done panic, all brands of production boat are built to a cost and as long as you purchase with your eyes open and knowledge and additional budget to purchase price you shouldn't be to disappointed. The hulls, decks are built well and the the boats are well designed and sail well.

 

Stephen
2010 H400, Auckland, New Zealand
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Sailingjack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sailingjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2017 at 14:54

Our H400 was delivered in July 2011. She's a great boat, but has had a few issues, like any boat.

Like Thomas writes, no problems with windows.

Stephen has a good list of things to check out. He mentioned in point 4 the sail drive. Our boat is equipped with Volvo D2-40 engine and 130S sail drive (as standard in 2011). Volvo's transmission is isolated from the engine, so the anode should be protecting only the drive.

Some fellow sailors have had problems with bulkhead material in their 2011 boats. The outer layer has been glued with a wrong type of adhesive, not water proof. This may cause bubbles in bulkhead surface, but if I have understood correctly, it is not a structural problem, more cosmetic (?).

Here's a list of what we have found:

The exhaust outlet, which was a plastic pipe laminated thru the hull had a smaller diameter than the exhaust hose. Volvo mechanic discovered this and according to him and Volvo installation instructions, the outlet diameter should match the hose. Otherwise the exhaust system will build up back pressure causing exhaust valve temperature rise during heavy engine loading and in the long run burn exhaust valves. I have changed it to a larger diameter stainless steel outlet fitting.

Water tank breather hose goes under the bow cabin port side bench and up behind the closet. There was a sag (is that the word?) under the bench causing some water to stay in the pipe and go bad. I have drilled a large diameter hole under the bench pillow and tried to fix it so that the pipe line would decsend all the way, but have not succeeded yet. Every time I fill the tank I let it overflow for a minute in order to flush out whatever is growing in the pipe.

We have removed the grounding wire from the rudder as instructed by the Jefa technical bulletin.

The refrigerator insulation is not very good. This causes dew behind the main cabin matresses next to the fridge and eventually mold. I have installed camping matress material in between to keep the textile dry.

The fridge cooler fan inlet duct was installed on top of the cabin heater duct, so it draws hot air for the fridge whenever the heater is on (like so often in Finland...) I have redirected the duct, now getting much cooler air under the galley sink.

These are only minors, I think. All in all a great boat.
Hanse 400#803 s/y Saara
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sailingjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2017 at 21:23
And almost forgot:

Installed the missing shaft collar for the rudder as described in the thread:

http://www.myhanse.com/removing-rudder_topic8667.html
Hanse 400#803 s/y Saara
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StavrosNZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StavrosNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2017 at 01:25
I did forget to add powder coat on hatch frames to my initial response sorry:

Lewmar supply the flush series hatch to Hanse, the flush series hatch is the only model that only comes with one finish type powder coat white. Lewmar had a spell of bad powder coat, on my 2010 all of the flush series hatch frames experienced bubbling and peeling powder coat finish.

After much debate with agent they were changes out with new hatches, i still had cost and time of removing all of the old hatches (including side windows) and fitting new one. I did a deal with Lewmar agent and all of the new ones have natural anodised finish not white powder coat.

Suggest you check this carefully.
Stephen
2010 H400, Auckland, New Zealand
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devonh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote devonh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2017 at 02:31
Thanks to everyone for the feedback, much appreciated and this forum is a great resource for so many things!  Unfortunately the first boat fell through, now looking at one other 2011 and also a 2009 so fingers crossed one of them comes good!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Dan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 03:23
1- 2G Lewmar Flush Haches, non repairable and Lewmar will not sell you the parts only a new hatch.
2- Side Hull windows, leak and a real problem to remove, acrylic leaks under frame and eventually the acrylic pops out.
3- Stringer Subframe, check for cracks and signs of water ingress.
4- Check all heads are plumbed in correctly, when the tank leaks it has been know for engineers to plumb the discharge straight to sea and bung the tank hoses.
5- Saloon opening hatches, check for leaks.
6- Mast components, check deck plate has all the correct blocks.
7- Leaks from pull pit in to forward cabin, stains will show around the cabin and the forward forepeak wood laminate will show dark spots it leaking.
8- Coach roof leaks from coachroof vents on deck, saloon panels can leak and some damage can be seen either forward stbd roof lining or water under floor in compartments outside saloon heads entrance.
9- Port Aft cabin, check for engine exhaust touching cabin, holes can be chafed in exhaust at this area.
10- Check exhaust through port aft cabin inspection hatch, look for rusty streaks from leaning or damaged exhaust hose.
11- Rudder bearings, tiller arm and autopilot, this is a Jefa Package and all should be corrosion free and in good condition, if boat is out of the water check for abnormal movements in rudder, lock the wheel off and check from rudder.
12- Galley fridge lower access door, check seal and lock, this seal is the first to go and will flatten your batteries and trying to keep everything cold.





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