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Seacocks

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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Seacocks
    Posted: 07 May 2011 at 08:26
The June 2011 issue of the magazine Yachting Monthly has an extensive article about seacocks & makes the point that the RCD effectively states that seacocks need ony be made of a material that last 5 years
 
One picture shows a stop cock that looks frighteningly like mine
I thought mine were stainless steel, but now I am not so sure.
 
Has anyone any experience of one failing on a  Hanse?
Do we know what the material used is ?
 
Should I, after 8 years,  be looking to change?
 
Daydream Believer
 
 
 
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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kirkelund View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirkelund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2011 at 22:15
Hi Samuel / Daydream Believer

The material of the seacocks is really a classic issue of discussionWink

Hopefully your seacocks are NOT made of stainless steel. They should always be made of bronze in my opinion.

Seacocks made of brass would probably not hold out for more than 5 years and they are NOT fit for use in a maritime environment even if the boat yards are allowed to use them. Stainless steel is NOT ideal even if it will last for maybe at least 10 years. Bronze is the only material that will last at least 20 years +

Composite material is a rare alternative. As far as I know,  there is one supplier out there, "Trudesign" http://www.trudesignplastics.com/

I am pretty sure that all the seacocks on my Hanse 342 (2006) are made of bronzeBig%20smile

Ole Kirkelund
"Amani"
Ishøj, Denmark
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samuel View Drop Down
Admiral of the Fleet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 09:48
Kirkelund
One of the points made by the article was that,  whilst you are perfectly correct re bronze, a lot of suppliers are not actually supplying bronze & it is not possible to tell from just looking at it what it actually is.
It would be good if Hanse could comment- but I think not !!
I suppose we will have to wait for poor old Johan's to fall outCry ( only joking Johan )- then we will all know
 
Daydream Believer
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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kirkelund View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirkelund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 10:19
Samuel,

Yes I am well aware of that. You are exactly right that the main reason for the debate is that the supply of the correct bronze alloy has become rather unreliable -  and that it can be difficult to determine at a glance whether your seacocks are made out of the right material.Confused

However, brass fittings have a more yellow colour as compared to bronze, which are more red in tone. I realise that it may take an expert to determine which is whichWink

By the way, the right bronze fittings carry this code: CuSn5Zn5Pb5 Smile

Ole.
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Johan Hackman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johan Hackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 10:26
Originally posted by samuel samuel wrote:


I suppose we will have to wait for poor old Johan's to fall out ( only joking Johan )- then we will all know



I will let you know as soon as it happens. I might even post a picture of my sinking boat.

Johan
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graemefromdownu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote graemefromdownu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 15:56
For what it is worth, in 2008 our 461 was hauled for survey and the surveyor reported that the seacocks had corroded to the point here they were unsafe and as far as I remember one even broke off when pushed firmly.

The yard replaced every seacock with marine DZR units.  The local chandlers did offer cheaper alternatives but were not able to confirm they were DZR brass so their offer was declined.  Some of the seacocks were as fitted by Hanse others were fitted at the time the air-conditioning and generator were fitted (when the boat was new).  I am unable to say whether one lot were good and the others suspect.

The surveyor was unwilling to categorically say whether the corrosion was down to their composition or whether some sort of electrolytic action had been occurring which accelerated the corrosion, the vessel was only 3 years old at the time of the problem.  Once the new seacocks were fitted I also installed an isolator and only connect to marina power supplies when necessary.  Otherwise when we are away from the boat the batteries are maintained by solar and wind generators.

When Spindizzy was hauled again in March I checked all the seacocks externally and there was no sign of corrosion or dezincification.  I don't know how long DZR seacocks are rated in terms of lifetime but next time around we may fit the plastic Marelon units.
461: Dreamtime Wanderer, on her way to Australia.
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Ruach View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ruach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2011 at 19:16
Following the article in YM I checked my seacocks today.

I wasn't able to get a sight of the codes that would indicate the materials used, however all but one appeared to be OK.  The pipe attached to the skin fitting for the toilet/holding tank was the only one with any visible corrosion (green crusting round the skin fitting pipe attached to the seacock) but was nevertheless firmly attached.  The toilet inlet seacock had some pink mottling which indicates the early stages of dezincification but otherwise looked OK.  I had an engineer on board at the time who suggested that they may be plated to provide some degree of corrosion resistance and also checked the toilet outlet and confirmed it was OK at the moment.

It would be good to get some information and advice from Hanse.  I intend to replace the toilet outlet skin fitting and seacock at the end of the season when Ruach is hauled out.


Edited by Ruach - 09 May 2011 at 19:32
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gertha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gertha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2011 at 22:15
The skin fittings on Gertha I believe are bronze; but the valves above are crap; the toilet has failed and the replacement is no better.
Why can I not use 316 stainless , sod the cost.
Simon
Swanned off
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landlocked View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote landlocked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2011 at 21:54

The main concern with stainless steel is that it is subject to "crevice corrosion" if the surface is starved of oxygen.  One way to deprive the surface of oxygen is to cover it with stagnant water.   I think there is enough dissolved oxygen in the seawater or freshwater but if there is a pool of water sitting in the seacock for a long time, like over the winter, it can turn stagnant and cause corrosion.

My understanding is that you should not tightly wrap stainless steel with rigging tape for the same reason.
 
The crevice corrosion is not easy to see, which is another concern.   My thinking on bronze versus stainless is that the former can look crappy but be perfectly fine, while the latter can look perfectly fine but be crappy.  The discoloration you get on bronze fittings isn't usually indicative of a corrosion problem either.
 
I always assumed my fittings were bronze.  They look like it, but now I'm wondering....
 
 
 
 
 
"Kerkyra" 400e #042
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nickfabbri View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickfabbri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2011 at 19:56
I read the same article, and then phoned Hanse. As always they were hugely helpful and informed me that all the seacocks were indeed made of bronze and not brass. I have a 2008 320 BTW.
Nick71
Hanse 320
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