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New Hanse 345

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Jakob Pinade View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jakob Pinade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2012 at 01:02
I got curious as to exactly how stiff the Hanse 345 actually is. So I started goofing around with the stability curves. After some merging, strectching and alignment in Photoshop I managed to get a decent comparison between the Hanse 345 and Hallberg Rassy 342. I thought it might be of interest to others than myself:



Hanse 345 is the fuzziest line which is steeper at first, has a camel hump on the top and is the last to reach zero at about 127-128 degrees.

I know the curves are only an estimate so I'm not sure as to how exact (the probability distribution around the curves)  they are. I don't know anything about the initial parameters that are used either, or how much they affect the curve. Or even if they both use the same initial weight additions or the same placements of those in the boat (considering center of gravity and angular momentum). Hanse 345 was calculated from a weight of 6640 kg. But still 420 additional kg sounds less than crew, luggage, equipment and some water and diesel. The plots were a little bit inaccurate as well.

But if we are a bit bold we can play a little bit around with the plots.

The total stiffness (area beneath the curves) of these two boats are about equal. Hanse is slightly stiffer up to almost 40 degrees. Better hull stability? Then the HR 342 is stiffer until some 95 degrees, which should more or less be a full knockdown. A lower center of gravity on the HR? Then beyond 95 degrees the Hanse is stiffer all the way until it reaches a slightly higher angle of vanishing stabiliyt (AVS). The buoyancy of the higher freeboard on the Hanse?

Beyond the AVS I doubt that the plots are particularly accurate due to difficulty of estimation. But if they actually are, it is easier to get rolled back up if you are in (or beneath) a Hanse. If all the interior still is in place of course Wink.

Even though I doubt you can compare these two plots as directly as this, you can probably say that HR 342 and Hanse 345 are more or less equally stiff. Quite impressive I would say! Especially considering the reputation of HR. And for people that live in volatile areas and has experienced a few knockdowns this definitely weighs in heavy. I seriously doubt that any of the other sailboat brands that compete in the same bracket as Hanse are anywhere close to this.

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Yeoman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yeoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2012 at 09:03
Hi Jakob,
 
This is really interesting - thank you
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Jakob Pinade View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jakob Pinade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2012 at 20:22
I found a good explanation of how the stability curves are calculated. It is surprisingly straightforward and intuitive:

http://www.sailboat-cruising.com/gz-curves.html

Some zooming and alignment of the HR 342 plot shows that a GZ of 0.7m approximately corresponds to a GM of 4000kg*m ==> 5714kg used in the calculation. This means that HR 342 had about 414 kg of added weight, while Hanse had 440kg in the stability curve calculations. Assuming they both placed the added weight more or less in the same place, all the comparisons I did above are actually accurate and relevant.

So to sum up:
1: Hanse 345 is slightly stiffer from 0 to about 38 degrees. This is the normal heeling range.
2: HR 342 is stiffer from about 38 to 95 degrees. This is a common range for broaches and knockdowns.
3: If we say that 0 to 95 degrees is what most of us will ever experience, HR 342 is stiffer overall, but not by much.
4: Not many of us will ever experience this, but beyond 95 degrees Hanse 345 is more eager and prone to right itself.
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Johan Hackman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johan Hackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2012 at 20:57
Originally posted by Jakob Pinade Jakob Pinade wrote:

HR 342 is stiffer from about 38 to 95 degrees. This is a common range for broaches and knockdowns.



Anything less than 95 degrees in a broach is for sissies.

Johan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stella*Nova Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2012 at 13:26
Here's a video made by the german YACHT magazin. It shows the new Bavaria 33 vs. Hanse 345.

There are two things I don't like: The wooden planks above the main windows and the double wheels.

http://tv.yacht.de/video/Bavaria-Cruiser-33-gegen-Hanse-345/1833310a228ffb4512dd97e38f45e6ac


Edited by Stella*Nova - 08 November 2012 at 13:28
BR Ralf, Ex. 'a mare' H370
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Johan Hackman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johan Hackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2012 at 14:35
I like the Bavaria. It seems to be a nice boat.

Johan
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Vertigo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vertigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2012 at 17:30
Johan,
 
I am not sure our Admiral is allowed to say thisWink!! I was also positively surprised
about the Bavaria 33 package. A friend of mine looked closely to both and despite
being Co-owner to my earlier 315 and now 375 he was surprised about improved
solutions and a much nicer look, this combined with a lower price than the 345.
I do not like to wood above main windows at all and hope this will disappear soon,
and am still happy with my 375.
 
Adrian
 
S/Y Vertigo
Hanse 375 #805
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Jakob Pinade View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jakob Pinade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2012 at 18:34
Yes the Bavaria 33 looks nice. Pretty interior, nice cockpit, FOUR winches. I'm curious if it is available with a traveler for the main sheets? The biggest minus with the Bavaria 33 is the keel weight: 1300 kg... With that wide hull you just know it is going to bob around like a cork when the weather gets ugly and the waves start to build up. And from the video it seems like it is starting to bob and wobble even though it doesn't seem that windy.

It's a pity the two boats aren't sailed together. The Hanse 345 certainly had calmer conditions. My guess is that Bavaria is great for sailing in lakes or protected waters, but when it comes to sailing on exposed passages I have much more belief in Hanse 345. Even though the weather in the video is almost too calm to say anything about how the Hanse behaves, the first impression is convincing. It moves like a big solid and stiff boat. There is another video on youtube, unfortunately with the same easy conditions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B6QeTQ0LwQ
I'm really curious about how it will behave in some big swells, considering the very wide transom.

If I'm not wrong the wooden board above the windows on Hanse is for handholds as well as for covering the lines. It is much nicer to grab some wood than an icy cold steel bar like on the Bavaria. So maybe the aesthetics is a bit weird, but I personally prefer that solution.

What I find most confusing about the Hanse 345 is their "insistence" of their simplified solutions. That is not allowing an upgrade for a main traveler, and not planning for four winches when you design the hull. After all they have genoa travelers as an option, while a main sheet traveler would seem like a much more popular add-on. Designing for two genoa winches wouldn't take too much away from the outside passageway either. It is so nicely done for example on the 415:
http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6219&title=hanse-415-first-pitures
Ok, a steel cradle isn't the end of the world, but in my opinion it is the one thing that is going to really stand out as unsightly.

My idea of the perfect cockpit is the beautiful but price prohibitive Najad 355:
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kirkelund View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirkelund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2012 at 18:38
Out of fairness to our B...... sailing friends (whom we mostly feel sorry forLOL) I would have to confess that the B...... 33 is an improvement.

BUT, I think the Hanse 345 is clearly in the lead in my view.

Allthough the double wheels on the 345 might seem to be an overkill, I am personally convinced that it is a very practical solution and more convenient than a very large single wheel.

BTW, all B...... sailors are always welcome on board Amani (in case they need a hugLOL)

Ole,

Kirkelund

"Amani"
Ishřj, Denmark
Hanse 342 (grey hull, wheel steering, deep draft keel, short rudder)
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Johan Hackman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johan Hackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2012 at 21:13
I just said that the Bavaria looked nice. I did not say which was my favourite...but it is.... the 342! It is a shame they don't make them anymore.

Johan

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