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Keel depth on new build

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SausalitoDave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SausalitoDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Keel depth on new build
    Posted: 25 November 2015 at 15:02
All:

I am building a new boat, this time not a Hanse; however, I need some advice from my fellow Hanse owners with experience cruising the Med and Caribbean.  I am thinking of a full depth fin keel; which, on this design, is 9.5 feet (2.9M).  Is this going to be a problem in the Med or Caribbean?  My plan is to take delivery in Europe, sail the Med for a year, do the ARC and then cruise the Caribbean before returning to San Francisco.  Not looking for offers on my almost new Hanse 505 as that will be my go-to boat in the SF Bay Area for the next 3 years.

Dave
Festina Lente
Hanse 505
Sausalito, CA
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sailkoop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sailkoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2015 at 17:05
Hi Dave,
I used my boat almost for 4 Seasons in the Med. With a Draft of 2.6m it is limited in a lot Areas in the Adriatic, Italy and Spain. If I had the choice, i would go for a Lifting Keel with around 2m deepness and completely out 2.9m!

Only my two cents


best regards

Bjoern



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Fendant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2015 at 17:33
I agree with Sailkoop. In most smaller harbors and nice secluded bights you will run into problems with 2.9 m. Me thinks that 2.0 meter draught is just fine for the med, more will force you to anchor further out with less protection or be confined to Super Yacht Marinas with corresponding price tags.
I am just back from 2 weeks sailing in the Carribean (BVI). Same situation there with mostp mooring buoys you will be at the limit and Anegada not accessible. We had a Leopard Kat with 1.2 m draft.
Frank
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silversailor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silversailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2015 at 01:01
The depth you propose will not be a problem in the Caribbean.  However, if you plan to do the Bahamas, it will be a problem.  In fact, anything deeper than 5' will be a problem in the Bahamas.
Silversailor
South Haven, MI USA
S/V Legacy
2010 Andrews 28
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Wayne's World View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne's World Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2015 at 10:32
Dave,

We opted for the 2.25m shoal draft instead of the standard 2.85 and we are glad we did. The deeper draft would have been a problem in various areas and smaller harbors in the MED. The other issue is the overall length and beam of your new boat. We sometimes have problems getting a berth is smaller harbors and town quays because of length and sometimes beam. Good luck with the new boat plans.  
Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Caribbean and will head across the Pacific early 2024
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Wild View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2015 at 13:48
Hello
We took the expensive mid draft 2,43 m to pieces iron-lead keel option(plus 13k euro) instead off the standard 2.80 iron our the small draft 1.95m option.
2 reasons: truck transportation by road ( not poss. with standard keel in one piece)
                  Sailing in the Med.1.95= bad behaviour in the stiff short waves of the Aegean Sea
2.43 is still a problem in some small Greek and Turkish town harbours and small bays like Frank mentioned.
Our big problem: the yard put the normal rudder ,witch is 2.35 m. By mooring stern to the quay we touch regularly the extended ballast rocks and damaged the rudder.
For the Med only ,I will not go for a lifting keel, I met to many sailors ( Ovni etc) who have problems with the system after touching a rock.
IMO 2 meter is the best solution but it all depends of the size and the shape of the hull.
Wild and Wet
Belgium
545e#268
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SausalitoDave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SausalitoDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2015 at 16:11
Thanks to everyone.  I welcome any additional opinions.  While this is a semi-custom build, there are only three options: full keel, shoal keel, and 10' retractable.  I am concerned that the shoal keel will not provide the righting moment and will make a huge investment in carbon spars and rigging a waste.  I just may have to tie up with the big boys and pay the freight.

DR

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sailkoop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sailkoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2015 at 16:52
Hi,
I would go for the retractable! As Wild described, take care about the System himself. In former Times the Hydraulic or electromechanical System are not working reliable. Some References from the Boatyard in front of should help to get Trust or even improvements into the System...

Enjoy your decision and please inform us ...Wink
best regards

Bjoern



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kipwrite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipwrite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2015 at 22:55
I'd second the centerboard - as it allows you better performance to windward when needed, and still allows you to gunk hole in the Bahamas. A spot well worth visiting.

My last boat had a hydraulic centerboard - 10'2" down, 5'6" up - and the system performed flawlessly for many years. It was designed to fold upwards without damage in case of a grounding - which I never did (with the board down). Neils Helleberg did the design for Alden.

While it's possible to do the Bahamas with a deeper keel, some spots (the Abacos, for instance) will be off limits. Elsewhere you'll be pretty far afield.

I'd ask your builder/architect about the difference in righting moment between the centerboard and full keel. I suspect you won't be giving up much. If it is well designed it should perform well.

Good luck with your new boat.
Kipwrite
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SausalitoDave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SausalitoDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2015 at 01:20
The builder let me know that the full-keel draft was only 8.01 at light displacement and should never exceed 8.5 feet.  I hope that with at least an extra foot safety margin I will be comfortable throughout the Med and Caribbean.  Clearly, there are going to be a few spots that will not be accessible; however, the trade off is that I will have the best possible performance to windward.  BTW, the boat is a Swan 54.  Not a lot bigger than my Hanse 505, but 15K pounds heavier; and, therefore, likely a more comfortable vessel for ocean crossings.  I am also going full carbon on the spars and standing rigging for strength and better stability.

Dave
Festina Lente
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