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Forward looking Sonar Echopilot

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H8jer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 September 2014 at 08:59
Hi all

Next season we will properly go to Sweden with dangerous rocky waters. I can't really understand Swedish without Google translate, and those submerged rocks have prevented me from going there.

But now I think it is about time to discover and explore that area.

I would like to prepared the best I can, and therefore I am looking into getting a Forward looking Sonar of the brand EchoPilot. It only costs about 600 euros. (http://www.svb24.com/?t=product&action=view&id=2994)

Does anyone have experience with the performance of the EchoPilot FLS Bronce in rocky waters??

Normally I use sun glasses with special uv-filters(Polaroid CAT 3 POLAROID CE AS/NS 1067.2003 Australian Standard) that clearly show when I am closing in on shallow waters in Denmark, but I am afraid that those submerged rocks can appear with no warning.

What do you think - Is this need to have or nice to have?

/H8jer



Edited by H8jer - 26 September 2014 at 09:01
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Gregor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2014 at 09:38
What about a fish finder? No joke.
Uisge Beatha

Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002)
Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

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H8jer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2014 at 11:38
Originally posted by Gregor Gregor wrote:

What about a fish finder? No joke.

A fishfinder only look down and not forward.

This article lists pros/cons between fish finder and Forward looking sounders:

A statement in the article about a forward looking sounder: "so the edges of dredged channels show up clearly, as do rocks and vertical surfaces."

I had a fish finder in my old boat, and didn't like it because it was difficult to distinguish the hard bottom apart from seaweed. My IS15 Combi only gives the depth with one decimal. You can read the depth in a sec. But obvious it will not know about a dangerous rock just in front of the boat....

/H8jer

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H8jer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2014 at 17:36
Certainly I need to sail by the charts but I take a lot of chances and perhaps a Forward Looking Sounder could make my wife a bit more calm...

In the picture below you seen one of the chances I took this season. Every other boat took the path around buoys. We were on a tack almost close hauled so I hoped that the wind didn't shiftLOL
All the other skippers out there looked with disbeliefLOL The depth is in meters

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark&Catherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2014 at 17:38
Fortune favours the brave they say
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2014 at 20:11
I had one in my first boat. Didn't like it and wasn't of any help. The rocks appear the last moment , especially if the waters are shallow and you have to concentrate on the screen which is impossible and very distracting. The warning is to late to take action.
It's role changed almost immediately from prevention to taking risks during races: when we approached a known rock one crew concentrated on the screen to try to pass as close as possible to win just a few meters over the competition, increasing the risk.
My opinion is a big NO NO NO!

Edited by panos - 26 September 2014 at 20:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2014 at 19:51
Originally posted by panos panos wrote:

The rocks appear the last moment...My opinion is a big NO NO NO!

Hi Panos 

Thank you for your answer.

In the picture below you'll see a situation from this season also. We were on a tack and I knew that we were heading for shallow water. I looked at the depth sounder and it read 11 meters. My son was asked to alter the setting on the selftacker sheet rail, and he had some trouble getting it fixed. The next time I looked at the depth it suddenly was only 3 meters.
This season we were sailing in a Danish fjord, where the water has very limited view, and my sunglasses was of little use. (Panos - I believe you sail in Greek waters - unlimited visibility?) I believe that had I had the Echopilot, I would have had a better overview on how close we could approach the shallow water.
But Panos has a point. It looks like echopilot will only tell the depth for the distance for 10 times the water depth. This meaning that in 10 meters depth it can look 100 meters ahead, but at 3 meters it can only look 30 meters ahead.
Are there anyone that has experience with echopilot in zero-visibility scenarios?

(looks like Myhanse compresses the pictures so a picture goes from 135 Kb to 27 KB. -A lot of quality is lostAngry)

 


Edited by H8jer - 30 September 2014 at 19:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2014 at 23:26
In theory it looks 10 times the depth but in practice much less. If the bottom is soft or weed not even three times the depth. Unless you are crawling forward at zero speed you have not an early enough warning to avoid the shallow area. And of course one crew must always keep his/her eyes on the screen. There is no sound alarm.
Panos

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 18:18
I have an Echo pilot echo sounder & log & am not particularly impressed. I changed to it because my Simrad log packed up & this instrument offered the option of an extra GPS display
It is harder to see than my NASA instruments - especially at night- The red light either gives a glare so bright it dazzles me or is too dim. I have to use a torch to see it from the helm at night( it is over the hatch garage)
It looses the signal far more often than the Simrad unit.
I calibrated the log in the non tidal Calledonial canal & found that it can easily be 10-20% out . I calibrated it to be correct at 5Kts but at 6.5 kts or 2.5 kts it is well out. The log is in the old simrad position
I would not buy Echo Pilot again. False economy



Edited by samuel - 29 September 2014 at 18:38
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H8jer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 19:02
Originally posted by samuel samuel wrote:

I have an Echo pilot echo sounder & log & am not particularly impressed. 

Is the sounder - forward looking or just a regular one?

It looks like there are a lot of cons and not so many pros like in the sales brochures...

The EchoPilot FLS Bronce looks upto 100 meters forward, but FLS 2D has 200 meters.
But the FLS 2D from 989 euros. I think that's over budget.

Looks like they only got a "forward alarm" and not an anchor guard. Normally I only use GPS for that, but if GPS fails it would be nice to have some sort of backup.
It is only possible to have one sounder working at one time. So I go for the EchoPilot I can not use the IS15 which is working perfect.

I will try to google through the internet to see some other reviews.

/H8jer

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