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Mark_J1
Rear Admiral Joined: 12 March 2013 Location: Dover&Medway UK Status: Offline Points: 526 |
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JonB, best of luck in chasing the fault/s to conclusion.
Re separate regulator info request. My experience is positive 'in use' but see comments below re fitting. I've Had a Sterling ProReg B alternator regulator (AR12V) in use with an Hitachi 80A alternator for the best part of a couple of seasons. Engine Yanmar 3JH, Battery bank is 390Ah on Service, plus another 110Ah feeding engine start & winches. Naturally we swapped all lights to LED and did some minor work on the fridge to reduce draw plus added a voltage sensor in the fridge circuit to ensure it switches off if the voltage drops below 13v. Also have 50w solar panel producing 0.5amps or better on a sunny day. With this set up, the Regulator has done extremely well in coastal cruising mode with occasional nights at anchor. I see 40A plus going into the batteries at modest RPM. 20A from pretty much idle. Rarely have to run the engine simply for battery charging purposes as basic manoeuvring and occasional motor sailing are enough to keep the batteries topped up. In fact I rarely leave the boat on shore power, leaving the solar panel to keep things topped up. That said, if I did things again I would not fit this style of regulator again in combination with the Hitachi alternator. I would buy one of Mr Sterlings alternator-to-battery chargers instead. The logic? The alternator-to-battery chargers are 3 or 4 times the cost, but so very very easy to fit. On the other hand the above £100'ish ProReg B meant stripping the alternator from the engine, and in turn stripping down the alternator itself to get at the internal wiring. It wasn't impossible & the instructions are good but it was very fiddly and time consuming (especially as Hitachi use crazy 80mm long 5mm dia bolts that strip the heads as soon as you look at them!). Other manufacturers alternators may have been easier. This setup took me a solid couple of days effort plus a visit to Thuderbolts to find replacement bolts. However, my vote is for one of the alternator-to-battery chargers for speed of install and minimal wiring etc. Reckon the job could be complete in 2-3 hours. Btw to date (125hrs use) I've had no slipping belts or any great increase in belt dust. The regulators 'soft start' mode seems to work well. As I stripped everything down I did go to the trouble of fitting multiple +ve & -ve power leads to the alternator from the main link cables (at the starter motor) to handle the higher average current. The standard ones on their own are pretty feeble and even though I had thick cables between the engine and batteries, the last couple of feet were like 'silly string' in comparison and offer unnecessary resistance and therefore lost amps. There's not much room behind the alternator for fat cable so multiple links is the best option. Mark
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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31
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Fendant
Admiral Joined: 03 November 2012 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 1617 |
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Hi Mark,
which type of voltage sensor did you choose to Switch the fridge off below 13 Volts ? I had a bad experience when soem nice chap pulled my 220 Volt plug and connected to Charge his batteries in my slip. However he forgot to conncet my cable when he left As a result I had two dead AGM's !
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Frank
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Mark_J1
Rear Admiral Joined: 12 March 2013 Location: Dover&Medway UK Status: Offline Points: 526 |
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Fendant, I fitted a "JWMarine Fridgemate". It was a cheap eBay buy that had been hiding in somebody's lockers unfitted. A quick search shows the company still exists, but I don't see the product listed. You could try giving them a ring. Otherwise, I did see via Google some self-build circuit possibilities at the time if you are happy with a soldering iron.
I do like the Fridgemate though. Cuts power to the fridge automatically once we start sailing and voltage naturally drops. Don't have to remember to manually switch the fridge off and it comes on again whenever the motor is next run. There's a manual overide too in case you want to run the fridge for a time. Mark
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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31
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Mark_J1
Rear Admiral Joined: 12 March 2013 Location: Dover&Medway UK Status: Offline Points: 526 |
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Or if you want something more sophisticated has anyone tried one of these smart controllers on a Hanse Isotherm fridge? My Fridgemate above cost me about £12 this is £175 but might be useful for distance cruising without going for the full water-cooled compressor solution.
Btw if you want to hunt more widely Fendant search on "Low voltage disconnect" devices. There are lots out there and many are programmable. The 'battery saver' style seem to have the switching points a little too low for use with the fridge, but if you can buy or build a programmable one and set the off and on voltages more sensibly then there are a range of solutions. Edited by Mark_J1 - 26 July 2014 at 13:34 |
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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31
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jeancharleb
Captain Joined: 12 December 2008 Location: Marseille, Fr Status: Offline Points: 316 |
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You can fit maybe on a Yanmar a Général Motors marine alternator
Of 120 amp hour. I did it on my last boat Beneteau wich had a Westerbeek motor. The only braket to change Was the one to adjust tension of belt. Thèse alternators cost nothing and worked fine. I Will probably do the same on my Yanmar 75 hp saildrive. In any case alternators give maximum charges for à few minutes only The y dramaticaly fall down in output after a few minutes. Also they dont have to be trigured to start charging. |
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Jean Charlebois
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Rubato
Admiral Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1791 |
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Jon,
No matter what you do with the alternator (80A or 130A), definitely upgrade the regulator. There are articles around the web on why the standard automotive regulator isn't the right choice for a boat (topping up a starter battery versus.... ). A smart regulator will charge faster and will charge in multiple stages that is better for the battery. Batteries - I am unlikely to every upgrade from standard lead-acid batteries. Why? Because AGM and other technologies are much more expensive, have a much more limited life AND can't be charged as fast! Even sealed lead acid (maintenance free) can't be charged as fast as the regular batteries because there is no way to replenish the fluid. So biggest bang for the buck, by far, is normal lead acid that is maintained properly (meaning water topped up and not fully discharged). Smart Regulator - what kind? I agree with Mark. I went with the smart regulator fitted onto the Hitachi alternator. It works great but it is a lot of work to install. To do it again, I'd go with an alternator to battery charger as Mark suggests. Have a look through the Sterling catalog. http://www.shop.sterling-power.com/acatalog/2014.pdf There's all sorts of interesting information buried in there about charging systems - including regulators, split diodes,..... You don't have to buy Sterling but I find the products work great and are reasonably priced compared to some alternatives. Lastly, as Mark suggests, if you increase charge rates you'll likely have to increase the cable sizes from the alternator/charger to the batteries. I have not yet and get an alarm once in awhile.... Good luck Steve |
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Steve
Hanse 400e, #168 |
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samuel
Admiral of the Fleet Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2683 |
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Do not know if this is relevant but there is a school of thought that golf cart batteries are ideal for service batteries on yachts if you have the space because they are designed to be run down fairly flat & get a lot of abuse. They just have to be linked up to get the 12 or 24 v that you need. but they can be heavy
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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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JonB
Rear Admiral Joined: 21 September 2010 Location: Cowes Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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Thanks again,
As you suggest the intelligent regulator needs a little thought to fit, I need to locate a positive from the ignition circuit, probably the oil alarm is the closest, plus run a new wire to the existing rev counter in the wiring loom. It will then decide how the batteries will be charged, trickle, baulk etc. I have a theory that unwittingly, when I go to the boat at weekends, to 'maintain' things and turn radio, VHF on, I've pulled the voltage out and without the Marlec wind generator and being on a remote pontoon, the levels of the batteries reached critical. Or at least demanded so much power from the alternator that it couldn't cope, the regulator sensing it was going to overheat slowed it down, causing the belt to slip. Having been on shore power for a whole day the Sterling Pro Battery charger & conditioner has redeemed my efforts and all batteries are showing green condition cells. So the alternators either 60 or 80amp do not scream even when I test with bow thruster going. The odd thing we've noticed is that the volt gauge used to climb quite quickly to 13.5v when the engine is running, now it stops at 12.7v. At least the Marlec is back up, keeping them topped up. I will take the new 100 amp and intelligent regulator away with us and sit down and wire it in during our time away.
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Jon B
470e http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk |
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JonB
Rear Admiral Joined: 21 September 2010 Location: Cowes Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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I think I've cracked it !
I've by-passed the Battery Master Mate and sure enough up went the volts. So I've replaced it with a new unit capable of handling 150amps. So next is to put the new 100amp alternator and wire in the intelligent regulator. Oh and the wind transponder fell off
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Jon B
470e http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk |
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JonB
Rear Admiral Joined: 21 September 2010 Location: Cowes Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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I'm pleased to say that following our month at sea, for our planned trip to the Scilly Isles. I've brought NK back with everything (almost) in working order.
The eating of fan belts and screaming from the same, turned out to be the Battery Master Mate at fault causing the alternator to 'brake'. I've now replaced the Master Mate with an alternative three way unit, the alternator with a 100amp one and an ARS-5 intelligent regulator (just need to programme it). With the Marlec wind generator and its regulator, the 50amp Sterling shore power battery charger and conditioning unit, our batteries have never had it so good ! The wind transponder that fell off the mast whilst tacking by the Shingle bank at the Needles has been replaced and the wind instrument are working again. UV had made the top connection brittle so the unit has been working loose for some time (hence stopped working) and eventually fell off. And yes I had been up the mast several times but not noticed that the problem was aloft. The lack of hot water from the clarifier, turned out to be a lack of water in the system, despite the expansion tank showing a full level all the time. The poor or non information from the Navtex turned out to be a corroded connection. The leak down the mast everytime it rained has stopped. Think this is due to the warm summer softening the rubber and the mast gaiter has bedded in better. Of course boats are boats and there's always something to do, the deck tidy pulleys need removing and cleaning up or replaced. I need to finish cleaning and polishing the starboard side of the deck, then think about the hull. As for our cruise, well we never did make the Scilly's, Hurricane Bertha had us held up in Plymouth, (where I had arranged to pick up a new wind transponder and fitted it), plus we discovered two nights of firework competitions to watch. Still, we'll probably try again next year.
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Jon B
470e http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk |
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