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Main sheet

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 345/348
Forum Description: 345/348 Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10522
Printed Date: 28 March 2024 at 14:51
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Main sheet
Posted By: Magicol
Subject: Main sheet
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 21:49
Hello everyone. I am looking for yet more advice. I want to add a third reef to our 345 which, like reefs 2 & 3 is controlled from the cockpit. Because of the height involved I know I cannot have a single line controlling this reefing point however I think 2 lines will allow this. So far so good but I will then need 2 clutches to control the reef. I have one spare clutch. There isn’t really sufficient space to add more clutches and this is where the main sheet comes in. I have the standard 345 continuous sheeting line which can be controlled on both port or starboard sides. Has anyone tied off one of these lines? This would free up one of the clutches. Will this have any impact on controlling the main? What would be the consequences of doing this?
Any thoughts or comments on this would be much appreciated.

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Hanse 345 #237 based on the Clyde



Replies:
Posted By: 415 Singapore
Date Posted: 11 November 2017 at 09:58
Hi, we haven't installed a third reef, but wanted to free up one of the clutches for a cunningham. Having sailed the boat for a few seasons we had rarely used the port main sheet as the jib sheet is on the same side. So now we sheet the main only on the starboard side, no problems to date although in windy conditions you do have to remember that you can only ease the main from the starboard side.

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Paul - Night Train - 415 #136


Posted By: Magicol
Date Posted: 13 November 2017 at 12:54
Thanks Paul. This is helpful. I recognise that there might be some inconvenience but gaining the clutch wiould be helpful.
Appreciate the reply.
Colin

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Hanse 345 #237 based on the Clyde


Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 14 November 2017 at 07:44
On my boat I overcome the third reef problem in 2 ways -
first -by transfering the clew outhaul (Thus using the same clutch) to a strop ( the strop goes under the boom) the 2 ends of which sit inside the cover when not in use. When I want to use it i lower the sail & pass one end through the loop of the other end & hook it to the old clew outhaul. as the outhaul is winched in it tightens down on this strop & also pulls the clew aft as well as down.
At the luff I have a strop with 2 snap shackles. This hangs on the spinnaker ring all the time & in rough weather i use it as a hand hold as shown in the picture. When I reef it passes under the spinnaker ring ( which stops it riding up the mast) & hooks on to the reef rings of the sail on either side. This holds the sail down & keeps it forward against the pull of the clew.
I then can tighten the halyard as hard as I like
It does mean I have to drop the sail & let the boom end come into the cockpit to transfer clew outhaul to reef point & then go forward to do the forward point but it means a bullet proof reef & I can use the existing clutches.
Second-In this picture you will see a line attached to the blue strop. This is not the clew outhaul but a spare line as I later found I could free up another clutch. So I put the line in & it lays connected to the strop but the strop is not looped through the other end. The knot is to stop the other end dropping out of the cover.. So now to reef I disconnect the line, threadle the strop then re connect the line & do not have to use the clew outhaul. It is there as a reserve though


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 14 November 2017 at 08:13


To free up a cleat I stole this idea from a Figaro race boat & use it for my topping lift.
It could be used for a cunningham. The dynema line just has room to sit round the base of the winch & has not suffered any abrasion after 2 seasons use. The bolts of the aluminium plate are prevented from damaging the deck because I have added 2 small rubber buffers. That is why it is tipping upwards. Under load it sits level.
It avoids making more holes in the deck
the 2 outer cleats are used instead of clutches so that i can swop lines that are not being used which means that I can use them for 4 different lines instead of just 2. They take 10mm lines OK & can be used for guys, cunningham, MOB hoist, etc




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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: Martin&Rene
Date Posted: 14 November 2017 at 15:24
Since I have just done a reply on this topic on the 320 forum, I can repeat it here.

From a post years ago on the Myhanse forum, I found out how to rig a third reef.  My Selden boom has 4 pulleys at the aft end.  At the front end there are 2 pulleys on the topside for the 1st and 2nd reef and two pulleys on the bottom side, of which one is used for the outhaul.  I rig the third reef line from the leech through the remaining downward facing pulley and then there is pulley fastened under the gooseneck and the reefing line goes round this and then up to the third luff reefing point.  The ball bearing pulley (Barton Size 4) with becket is secured by rope (white) to the lower kicker mast fitting and held up by shockcord (blue) close to the gooseneck.  You can just see it in the photo on this post.   At the base of the mast. I switched to a block and fiddle (Barton size 4) and run both reef 1 and 3 through this and I then added another pulley to the sail organiser and another clutch by the cockpit.



At the leech, I run the third reefing line through a Harken air block and attach this to the sail leech reefing eye with a long Dyneema soft shackle.  The end of the line is secured to the boom as normal

http://www.animatedknots.com/softshackleedwards/index.php

Thus, in light weather I can take off the 3rd reef leech line, leave the pulley in the stackpack and reduce the amount of rope dropping into the cockpit.




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Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland


Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 14 November 2017 at 17:34
Originally posted by Martin&Rene Martin&Rene wrote:

 I then added another pulley to the sail organiser and another clutch by the cockpit.


Which, for some, is the problem!!
If you used the clew out-haul instead you would not need one. Could this not attach to your dynema loop (as the rest of your suggestion) when needed.  The air block could just sit on the outhaul waiting there until needed between the end of the boom & the sail.
Then unclip the out-haul, hook it to the boom, or a length of line fitted to the boom & you have the set up as you described- for the leech- Do you not?


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: Magicol
Date Posted: 16 November 2017 at 00:31
Thank you. I am grateful for the feedback and the photographs are particularly welcome. I find it helps greatly to see how others solve the same problem. I will look to try out these solutions and find the best one for our boat.

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Hanse 345 #237 based on the Clyde


Posted By: Martin&Rene
Date Posted: 17 November 2017 at 12:29
Samuel
I think the key words in your description are "drop the sail & let the boom end come into the cockpit ".   From this I assume your yacht is like many 311s in that it has a kicking strap and so you can lower the sail and adjust the topping lift.

Most of the larger and later Hanse yachts have rod kickers and so when we lower the sail, the boom stays up.  The thought of trying to re-thread anything at the end of a boom that is swinging around at head height in 20 kts of breeze and a seaway does not appeal to me.

I was glad to find the description of my current system, as though Rene and I are long term dinghy races, Dipper was our first yacht.  It gave us both confidence to know that we can shorten sail considerably from the cockpit if the wind suddenly gusts up, as it sometimes (often) does in Scotland.

If there is a Force 5-6 in the forecast, I just connect the leech reefing pulley onto the sail with the soft shackle and pull some slack through of the 3rd reefing line.  Incidentally, I have marks on the leech reefing lines by the boom end, so I know how much slack to pull through when shaking out reefs in harbour, as this makes hoisting the sail easier.

I agree Magicol is lucky in that he states he has a spare clutch that he can use.  Certainly on the 341/342s, there is quite a large reinforcing plate so it is fairly easy for somebody to add a new clutch.  I just changed the deck organiser from a 2 pulley on top of a 3 pulley to them both being 3 pulleys, so I do not think we even needed to makes any more holes.


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Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland


Posted By: plattgatt
Date Posted: 18 November 2017 at 16:02
Excuse me,
I'm too stupid. Can you draw the arrangement?
Thank you
Bernd


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370#641 "aqua d`or"


Posted By: Martin&Rene
Date Posted: 19 November 2017 at 17:42
Plattgatt

Do not worry;  when I read a piece that I have written some months ago about something technical, I am not certain I always understand it the first time.  some things are so obvious when you actually see them, but difficult to describe. 


I will try to do a drawing for you later this week, but I am no artist.


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Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland


Posted By: Martin&Rene
Date Posted: 25 November 2017 at 12:33
Hope these diagrams held pa bit.

The first diagram shows the overall layout of the third reef line.  The rope is fastened to the boom, in a similar manner to the other reefing lines, runs up to the leech 3rd reef point, back down to the boom end through the pulley set and into the boom.  At the front of the boom, the rope then comes out through a turning pulley on the bottom of the boom, round a new turning block, then up to the luff 3rd reefing point, down through a reefing lead to the mast foot.

As I did not have a spare mast foot attachment point, I use a block and fiddle pulley *, with the 1st reef line going around the main pulley and the 3rd reef line going around the smaller pulley.  I do not use a double pulley, as when it is only loaded on just one pulley, it twists and jams slightly.

(*Barton size 4/5 ball bearing sheave fiddle block, reverse shackle)


 

Now looking in more detail.  Under the reefing load, the turning pulley** by the front of the boom is pulled upwards, so I have fastened its attachment rope to the mast kicker fitting. (It is the white/blue rope you can see in the earlier picture.)  As the pulley would fall when it is not under load, a piece of shock-cord is fastened to the becket loop, goes through a micro-pulley fastened to the mast gooseneck fitting and the down to the mast kicker fitting.  (This is the blue line you can see in the picture.)

(** Barton 4/5 single block, ball bearing sheave, reverse shackle with becket)

 

As friction is a problem on single line reefing systems, I have added blocks at all turning points.

For the 3 luff reefing points I used Barton swivel eye ball bearing size 4 pulleys, as the pulleys wheels are covered on both sides.  With the pulley on one side of the sail and a 50mm stainless steel ring on the other, I fastened them together with thin dyneema lines, one line from the ring, through the sail eye and then to the block and another line from the ring, round the front of the luff rope and then to the block.  The reefing lines now go up and down on the same side of the sail, so the reefing lines will need re-routing somewhere.  If your sail drops in a fixed set of folds, then try to match in the pulleys with the folds.

For the 1st and 2nd reef leech pulleys I used Harken T2 29mm blocks and fastened them to the leech eyes with loops of dyneema about 20cm long.  As described previously, for the 3rd reef, I use a soft shackle, so I can disconnect the leech 3rd reef line in light weather. 

(For a 370, I would use 40mm blocks on the leech)



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Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland


Posted By: Magicol
Date Posted: 27 November 2017 at 00:45
Thanks Martin&Rene
The drawings are really helpful; I think you have devised a particularly creative and straightforward solution to managing the third reef. My mainsail is currently with the sail maker who will add the reefing points. I now understand how I can run the lines back to the cockpit.
Thanks again for taking the time to explain your solution. 


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Hanse 345 #237 based on the Clyde


Posted By: Magicol
Date Posted: 03 December 2017 at 18:16
I am in the process of adapting the systems described above to our 345’s rig. The mainsail is with the sailmaker who will add the rings for the third reef. Thanks again for all the advice.  One last point; we have the continuous mainsheet arrangement standard on the 345 with control on port and starboard sides as in the photograph below. Any thoughts on tying off the port hand line to free up the clutch? I guess there is the convenience of access on both sides but is there also a safety issue? Any thoughts?


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Hanse 345 #237 based on the Clyde



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