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wind vane

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints and Tips
Forum Name: 311 / 312 / 315
Forum Description: 311 / 312 / 315 Hints and Tips
URL: http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3465
Printed Date: 20 November 2017 at 22:39
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: wind vane
Posted By: Gregor
Subject: wind vane
Date Posted: 24 November 2009 at 08:05
Just out of interest, anyone who has a wind vane mounted on his/her Hanse?

Gregor

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Uisge Beatha

Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu



Replies:
Posted By: Muscadet
Date Posted: 24 November 2009 at 11:54
I have a Raymarine wind vane on my 312. It is connected to my Raymarine autohelm. The Simrad IS15 sounder/log instrument supplied by Hanse is also connected to the Raymarine instruments using a Simrad/Raymarine interface. With the Garmin GPS connected into the Raymarine net using the NMEA0183 input all the instruments talk to each other and everything works fine.
 
Regards
Alan


Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 24 November 2009 at 12:01
Alan, Thanks for the reply. Could post some picture of the wind vane installation? I'm also interested on how you connected it to your autohelm.

Gregor

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Uisge Beatha

Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu


Posted By: Muscadet
Date Posted: 24 November 2009 at 12:55

Gregor,

Here is how I fitted the windvane to the mast:
 
 
Sorry about the rough sketch but I don't have any photos of the vane mounting!
 
I led the wire down the mast, through the wiring gooseneck, then across inside the headlining. I then led the wire back to the pedestal (I have wheel steering) and up into the instrument pod. As the windvane and the autohelm are both Raymarine I simply connected the wind instrument to the autohelm instrument with a standard Raymarine Seatalk lead (see photo below).
 
 
I hope that is all clear.
 
Regards
Alan 


Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 24 November 2009 at 13:28
Ah, Alan, thanks for the work and posting. However..... I meant a wind vane to steer the boat without electricity or so ;-) The object you put behind our boat... a wind steering device.

Gregor

-------------
Uisge Beatha

Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu


Posted By: Nordsee
Date Posted: 24 November 2009 at 21:45
Hi Gregor, we use a windpilot on our 315. Our experience with the windpilot is great and it also works very well on the baltic sea with the wind changes.
 
 
 
Piet
 
 


Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 24 November 2009 at 22:08
Hi Piet,

If you click 'reply' from the post itself, then you'll find a menu above the text area where you can click on a picture upload button. Make sure you have resized the pictures to a reasonable size.

Gregor

-------------
Uisge Beatha

Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu


Posted By: Nordsee
Date Posted: 24 November 2009 at 22:13
Hi Gregor,
here is an other one. 
Piet


Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 25 November 2009 at 08:21
Gregor
I have the Aeries fitted to my 311
It is the lift up version so is a little heavy but can be quickly removed to lighten the load for racing
I fitted it because the Simrad TP32 is miles too underpowered for the 311
I use it nearly all the time unless motoring as 90% of my sailing is single handed
It is a little quirky & it took a while to understand. But I do like it.
the stronger the wind the better. Downwind Its performance is often affected by waves. the wide stern of a 311 makes the boat directionally unstable as it heals & waves affect the balance. If the water is fairly flat or the wind fairly steady giving a constant heal angle the boat will run down wind as if on rails. In a lumpy sea & gusty wind it will run around like a dog on a lead until you select the right wind vane  & vane angle.
Up wind it steers better than a helmsman never loosing concentration or tiring.
I often set it, then play about with sail trim to see if I can increase performance. With the Aeries you know you are getting true speed changes whearas with a helmsman there is the tendancy to alter helming performance
It only takes a few seconds to set & if the boat is doing 5 knots a man cannot match the power of the servo
 
Daydream Believer


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 25 November 2009 at 08:46
Thanks for your detailed information, Samuel.

Do you have any pictures you'd like to post? I'm curious on how you managed to install it, knowing that the ladder is at the stern too.

Gregor

-------------
Uisge Beatha

Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu


Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 26 November 2009 at 13:43
Gregor
Hope this shows what you want
I do not know how to adjust the size so apologies to forum readers if this goes all wrong
 


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 26 November 2009 at 14:33
Thanks for the photo Samuel.

I was curious what you have done to your ladder, however now I see you have none. In case one has to climb out of the water, how do you manage to do that?

Gregor

-------------
Uisge Beatha

Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu


Posted By: Alain & Anne
Date Posted: 26 November 2009 at 16:21
We equipped Uhambo with a Windpilot Pacific 2 with two main goals:
= use a wind vane- more beautiful to see in action and energy saver!
= emergency rudder in case of...
After two years and 12000 NM, I have to say that the two goals were not achieved 100%.
Of course we did not use it as an emergency rudder as the main one is still working well. but we never get a 100% operating  wind vane.
I had a Windpilot on our previous boat and I am a bit disappointed but the moves of the 430 are sometime  too great to entrust the windvane. That leads to erratic correction and a couple of time to unexpected tack.
I will sell it and install a second autopilot and a emergency rudder.

Alain


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UHAMBO 430e#004
White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising
OCC-RCYC

Our blog: www.uhambo.fr



Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 26 November 2009 at 16:58
Gregor
I feel that a ladder would be dangerous in a seaway. That is supported by the RYA who advise against ladder rescue in any waves.
Plus it is too cold to go swimming in European waters.
Ido not use the ladder for getting off the dinghy as in a sea this is just as dangerous - I prefer to anchor the dinghy opposite the shrouds & clip the dinghy fore & aft.
I always board by the shrouds so I have a pull point higher than the guardrail which is too low
 
 
For man overboard rescue I have  a simple system
I have a flourescent orange halliard lead through the spinnaker up haul halliard position on the mast. This is lead back to the deck winch . It is flourescent so that it is instantly recognisable to the crew
The hallird is clipped permanently to the spinnaker eye on the mast.
It is long enough to pass round the front of the shrouds & back to the waterline at the stern.
there is a plastic golf ball sewn into the halliard which stops it being pulled up the mast out of reach, which could easily happen in a panic situation if the winch man pulled before the line man was ready.
I can lower the hook into the water & either hook onto the crews lifejackets ( I insist my crew always wear one unless very calm or a full crew on board)or onto a harness which I carry.
It is possible for my wife to winch someone out of the water unassisted. ( albeit a bit slow) On the free end of the halliard I have sewn a figure of eight knot to stop it being run up through the mast if the man overboard was hooked on but was pulled aft of the boat
I do not have a pole but if I did it could still be used to uphaul the pole as I have positioned the golf ball to allow this
 
going back to Alain & Anne's comment
I found the same with the Aeries at first but altering the counterbalance weight & making different vanes helps a lot. I made one vane with 2  strips of venetioan blind glued to the trailing edges. This made it more sensative & helps down wind. As I said it is not the power of the oar that is at fault it is the need to make rapid rudder movements because of the imbalance of the hull. Particularly down wind.
I see lots of vanes attached to boats that are clearly not being used ( the vane that is ) & I suspect that users have not really persevered with the setup.
I even found that altering the distance of the line attachement point on the tiller made differences
The most successful vane was a larger than usual one with a greater counterbalance. I have added an adjustable weight which is quite effective.
Once it is set up right it is a brilliant piece of kit & has kept me going even when totally incapacitated with seasickness ( which is more often than not )
the other advantage is it power, as steering a 311 can be really tiring.
I tend not to steer at all, if I can help it, but jut set up the vane . It is really good fun watching it catch other boats up whilst i am sitting drinking coffee


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: Alain & Anne
Date Posted: 26 November 2009 at 18:18
Hi Samuel,
Agree with I did the same to adjust the Windpilot Pacific on my previous boat which was a classical 70's design, and that worked quite well. The Pacific is like the Aries and drive directly the tiller through the servo-pendulum.

The difference with the Pacific Plus is the auxiliary rudder which is driven by the servo-pendulum. Therr is no way you could change the amplification of the system.

The point is that I could not rely on the system when sailing with waves: sometime the behavior of the wind vane was absolutly unpredictable. I have some experience of the Windpilot windvanes and I spent long hours at sea to make working and it did... untill a rogue wave caught the stern and drove the boat out of the path or the acceleration of the boat made the vane mad!

The other problem is the interaction with the main rudder: we cannot steer the boat with the auxiliary rudder released! We had to lock it, otherwise the boat started swinging. But when one have to manoeuvre in reverse for exemple we have to release the rudder.
Before ordering the Windpiklot I had long talks with Peter Foerthman the builder and he was very cautious about the use of a steering windvane on such a boat like Hanse. But I wanted it and I bought it. I must admit I was wrong.
And when you see how a simple Simrad AP16 can handle the boat under spinnaker with waves with optimizing the vmg, you realize that modern hull needs modern pilots!!
Alain


-------------
UHAMBO 430e#004
White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising
OCC-RCYC

Our blog: www.uhambo.fr



Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 27 November 2009 at 13:55
Alain
The hydrovane has an inherent problem with large waves
It has been well documented that such a design can be thrown off course when a rogue wave hits ( Or indeed just one a bit different to the rest)
The aries gear does not react in the same way. It did originally but the design was altered.
Furthermore the design of a Hanse does not lie well with fixing its rudder & applying a servo. I believe the Hydro plus has a fixed rudder & a servo but the principle is still the same. The servo of the aeries alters the main rudder directly & so there is less tendancy to veer off course if the set of the main rudder is wrong for a single wave.
Anyway - to each his own- & with modern electric systems a lot of people are happy with electric autopilots. On a 311 there just is not the facility for charging that you get on a larger yacht  so my aries is much appreciated.
 


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: Alain & Anne
Date Posted: 27 November 2009 at 18:17
Samuel,
It is not an Hydrovane but the problems moreless remain the same!




-------------
UHAMBO 430e#004
White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising
OCC-RCYC

Our blog: www.uhambo.fr



Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 29 November 2009 at 14:42
Sorry I meant wind pilot


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 29 November 2009 at 20:14
Thank you all for your posts. Interesting to read the various experiences and it sure helped to clear my thoughts on fixing and using he wind vane.

The waters where I sail are pretty good swimming areas. Removing the ladder would make it more difficult to get back aboard. This of course can be solved with a flexible ladder or so.

The price range varies, from what I found googling. For now too expensive to give it a further thought, also because the berth place is set to length of the boat. Fixing a wind vane would make the boat longer and the yacht club would charge me more money ;-)

Gregor

-------------
Uisge Beatha

Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu


Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 30 November 2009 at 07:10
Gregor
Mine is an Aries " lift up" model which if you can find one, generally go for £ 1500-00 second hand, or even less. There are lot of second hand ones on the market because so many have been made.
The lift up models are heavier than the standard ones but the beauty is that they can be detached from the bracket ( to lighten load for racing etc ) & the bracket does not extend beyond the stern of the boat. Plus these models have the best bearings. ie free running.
If you do not want the effort of detaching, then the whole unit lifts up out of the water & when I showed this to the marina they agreed not to charge me any extra. However, they still charge me for 31.5 feet as they take the anchor roller in to account


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex



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