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Reefing

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Wild View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2012 at 12:39
Hello,
 
here a drawing of the Selden single line reef coversion set.
I am waiting for comments to give my experiences.
Wild and Wet

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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2012 at 12:42
That s a totally different concept to the drawing shown in Gregor's earlier post

Edited by samuel - 21 November 2012 at 12:45
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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sailkoop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sailkoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2012 at 17:09
Hi Samuel,
If you are looking to the drawing of Gregor, you can pull 1m the block which is sitting inside the boom. Than you'll reduce the the distance of the reef line only by 0,5m! This is still a 2:1 ReductionWink
I absolut agree with you that the reefing System from Wild / Selden is working completely in an other way. It looks like more difficult to install it later on!

regards
best regards

sailkoop

http://www.sy-serafina.de
Hanse 470e #165

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2012 at 18:11
I considered the Selden system too. After a talking to the rigger he suggested the other system because it is easier to install and use. Besides that, it's cheaper too.

Gregor
Uisge Beatha

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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2012 at 18:37
Originally posted by sailkoop sailkoop wrote:

Hi Samuel,
If you are looking to the drawing of Gregor, you can pull 1m the block which is sitting inside the boom. Than you'll reduce the the distance of the reef line only by 0,5m! This is still a 2:1 ReductionWink
I absolut agree with you that the reefing System from Wild / Selden is working completely in an other way. It looks like more difficult to install it later on!

regards
 
In the picture I have replicated Gregor's system inside the boom
at the right hand end the cord is tied to a nail representing the reef line tied to the end of the boom. The cord coming through the block is the one going up to the clew where ther is a 2:1 as in single line reef.
at the left hand end the cord tied to the nail represents the line going up the luff where there is 2:1 as in single line reefing
where this passes out through the block at the LH end this represents the reef line going down the mast to the deck
We are not interested in the parts above the boom this is as for single line reefing
the 2 ends of my cord are tied together in a knot to demonstarte that line going in equals line going out. if one moves the knot left to right & back again the 2 ends compensate each other & the car moves back & forth. THIS MEANS RATIO IS 1:1 NOT 2:1
The car does not increase the purchase on the reefline & as far as power is concerned it has no effective rellevance
see pic below with the knot moved to the right & the car moving back & forth
So where is the advantage of placing the car in the boom???????
 
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2012 at 19:31
Samuel,
You are missing one block, the one at the goose neck.

Gregor

Edited by Gregor - 21 November 2012 at 19:33
Uisge Beatha

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter-Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2012 at 08:31
I am following this thread some days now.
For my own understanding i made a small sketch, that i want to share with you.
You see that with the same handpower on the winch, with the System from Gregor you get less power into the sail!Confused
But in the system "Gregor" you get diffrent loads in front and at the end of the boom to the sail.
So - is this really a advantage?
Am i right with my drawing? OK the moving of the blocks inside the boom is not considered. But is this the diffrence?

BTW: If you would add another block to the front reefing point on the Sail in system "Gregor", than the loads are equal again and will be the same as the hanse reefing system. Ouch Ouch





Edited by Peter-Blake - 22 November 2012 at 08:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sailkoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2012 at 10:10

Hi Peter-Blake,
I am coming back with your example and some drawing. In general, every moving block will reducing the load by 50%!


Hopefully you can read it!
Overall, you'll come to a reduction of load if you add on an moving block!!

regards
best regards

sailkoop

http://www.sy-serafina.de
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2012 at 11:26
Looking at Sailkoop's drawing, it supports my experience that the main overall is more flattened and that one needs less power to put in a reef.

BTW, nice to have my own named reef system :)

Gregor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2012 at 12:54
Sailkoop
Your figures are wrong
The figure for the car shows 50kg to the left but ot should be 100
That alters your final figure back by 50 kg so the final outcome is the same as the hanse rig
In my demostration rig i demonstrated that the car does not make a power advantage
The same goes for your second drawing
You have 2 lots of 150 kg equalling 200
Infact the pull os 2 lots of 100 kg

Get the figures correct & you will see there is no difference in the output

Edited by samuel - 22 November 2012 at 13:34
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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