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Stay sail

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JonB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Stay sail
    Posted: 27 June 2018 at 09:31
Morning big boys,

I own a 470 and am considering fitting a stay sail, (J1) to the bow behind the anchor locker where the front baulk head is and have been in discussion with fabricators.  However, whilst in Jersey a couple of weeks ago, a 545 came in and moored near by, anything with a keel over 2.0m is like to here.

I spotted that you guys have a D ring already bolted to the deck at this point and the question in my head was how is it reinforced. Does anyone have photos of plates in the ceiling or drawings/sketches of how this is fitted?

Thanks in advance.
Jon B
470e
http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk
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SausalitoDave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SausalitoDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2018 at 15:54
I put up a bunch of photos and drawings of what I did on my 505.  Search my name and it should come up.  

Dave
Sausalitodave
Hanse 505-17
Sausalito, CA
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JonB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2018 at 13:33
Thanks,

We don't have the luxury of the additional cabin space to run such a metal support as that but assume this isn't a component that was fitted as standard to 545's then.
Jon B
470e
http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk
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sailkoop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sailkoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2018 at 08:57
Hi Jon,
look to the 470 threads. There are already some Solutions including Pics.!
I discussed the Theme with the engineer who designed the Boat. You need add. Laminate to support the Load of the Stay into the bulkhead.

Only my two cents....
best regards

Bjoern

http://www.sy-serafina.de
Hanse 470e #165

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SausalitoDave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SausalitoDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2018 at 00:44
I agree with Bjoern, I did the analysis and the loads are potentially significant.  These loads are in all three dimensions: up from the deck (the largest), back towards the mast (through the deck), and a side to side (probably the smallest). Without accommodating these loads you will likely will not be able to keep the stay taught.  Attaching a stay to the deck alone (even with reinforcement) will not, INHO, support the loads under realistic sailing conditions.  I have seen several designs that continue the load along the same line as the inner forestay via a non-stretch line to the bottom of the boat. These should be effective as well. It would be great if Hanse would provide designs for this option on their larger boats; however, that is likely wishful thinking.

Best of luck.

Dave


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Black Diamond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2018 at 03:48
I'll defer the structural questions to others,  but there are deck reinforcement diagrams provided by Hanse that you should be able to get and review.

Having had cutter rigged boats for 20 years prior to my current Hanse, I guess one question I would ask is "why?".   

I liked the idea of having a smaller headsail that was self tacking and kept the center of effort nicely positioned when the weather got bad.    Staysail and a reefed main were a great combination in 30kts of wind. 

That said,   its also going to make it difficult to tack the existing genoa, as getting thru the slot is often not easy.    Its more rigging and sails to purchase,   not to mention the additional work in tacking the boat with both genoa and staysail rigged.    

So?   What is the rationale?    There are good and bad outcomes to be expected?

Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 #161
Newport, RI
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JonB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2018 at 10:28
Afternoon Rick,

Having watched the drone footage on the Volvo Ocean Race, the brace of three sails across the fore deck set my engineer mind ticking.

We short sail and as you'll appreciate from coming from a cutter the self tacker is a Godsend however, 
during our summer cruises we have a couple of long runs which we've found at least in one direction or another the wind drops and that was the predominant reason for getting a code 0 (110msq). I tend to uncouple and pull in the jib sheets and leave at the mast base so the fore deck is clear. Our first task when leaving Cowes, is to tackle the traffic in the Solent, which I should imagine is like crossing one of your bridges in Rhode Island at rush hour, or the M25 here in the UK.

I intend in converting the Code 0 from snuffer to top down furling as this will make tacking easier. The J3 will use the slot & pulley intended for the spinnaker with a 2:1 set up at the head to keep taught. The Tack will be attached to the deck and the sheets lead through the jib sheet cars to the cockpit.

So in light airs 12 -15kts, I'd fly both a la Volvo Open 65's.

If anyone happens to have such plans from Hanse I'd be interested.


Edited by JonB - 14 July 2018 at 10:33
Jon B
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http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk
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Black Diamond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2018 at 03:30
I sounds reasonable.   If I understand what you are saying,  I would be careful with the structural aspects of this.    I'm not sure the code zero attachment point is OK for top down furling use for a big genoa.   Same for how the staysail (assuming it will also be furling) will be attached to the deck.   Probably some reinforcement required...
Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 #161
Newport, RI
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JonB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2018 at 17:34
                                         Thor Junior       
                                            Code 0

The tack has a strop fitted and taken down to the D ring on the bow of our 470. If I opt for the furler I'll need to check there's room with the jib furler if not a small bowsprit will be required.

Here I've hoisted on the home pontoon.

The J3 stay sail will be a simple drop and bag job.
Jon B
470e
http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk
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