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wind vane

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samuel View Drop Down
Admiral
Admiral


Joined: 26 December 2004
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: wind vane
    Posted: 30 November 2009 at 07:10
Gregor
Mine is an Aries " lift up" model which if you can find one, generally go for 1500-00 second hand, or even less. There are lot of second hand ones on the market because so many have been made.
The lift up models are heavier than the standard ones but the beauty is that they can be detached from the bracket ( to lighten load for racing etc ) & the bracket does not extend beyond the stern of the boat. Plus these models have the best bearings. ie free running.
If you do not want the effort of detaching, then the whole unit lifts up out of the water & when I showed this to the marina they agreed not to charge me any extra. However, they still charge me for 31.5 feet as they take the anchor roller in to account
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Gregor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2009 at 20:14
Thank you all for your posts. Interesting to read the various experiences and it sure helped to clear my thoughts on fixing and using he wind vane.

The waters where I sail are pretty good swimming areas. Removing the ladder would make it more difficult to get back aboard. This of course can be solved with a flexible ladder or so.

The price range varies, from what I found googling. For now too expensive to give it a further thought, also because the berth place is set to length of the boat. Fixing a wind vane would make the boat longer and the yacht club would charge me more money ;-)

Gregor
Uisge Beatha

Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu
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samuel View Drop Down
Admiral
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2009 at 14:42
Sorry I meant wind pilot
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Alain & Anne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alain & Anne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2009 at 18:17
Samuel,
It is not an Hydrovane but the problems moreless remain the same!


UHAMBO 430e#004
White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising
OCC-RCYC

Our blog: www.uhambo.fr

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samuel View Drop Down
Admiral
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2009 at 13:55
Alain
The hydrovane has an inherent problem with large waves
It has been well documented that such a design can be thrown off course when a rogue wave hits ( Or indeed just one a bit different to the rest)
The aries gear does not react in the same way. It did originally but the design was altered.
Furthermore the design of a Hanse does not lie well with fixing its rudder & applying a servo. I believe the Hydro plus has a fixed rudder & a servo but the principle is still the same. The servo of the aeries alters the main rudder directly & so there is less tendancy to veer off course if the set of the main rudder is wrong for a single wave.
Anyway - to each his own- & with modern electric systems a lot of people are happy with electric autopilots. On a 311 there just is not the facility for charging that you get on a larger yacht  so my aries is much appreciated.
 
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Alain & Anne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alain & Anne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2009 at 18:18
Hi Samuel,
Agree with I did the same to adjust the Windpilot Pacific on my previous boat which was a classical 70's design, and that worked quite well. The Pacific is like the Aries and drive directly the tiller through the servo-pendulum.

The difference with the Pacific Plus is the auxiliary rudder which is driven by the servo-pendulum. Therr is no way you could change the amplification of the system.

The point is that I could not rely on the system when sailing with waves: sometime the behavior of the wind vane was absolutly unpredictable. I have some experience of the Windpilot windvanes and I spent long hours at sea to make working and it did... untill a rogue wave caught the stern and drove the boat out of the path or the acceleration of the boat made the vane mad!

The other problem is the interaction with the main rudder: we cannot steer the boat with the auxiliary rudder released! We had to lock it, otherwise the boat started swinging. But when one have to manoeuvre in reverse for exemple we have to release the rudder.
Before ordering the Windpiklot I had long talks with Peter Foerthman the builder and he was very cautious about the use of a steering windvane on such a boat like Hanse. But I wanted it and I bought it. I must admit I was wrong.
And when you see how a simple Simrad AP16 can handle the boat under spinnaker with waves with optimizing the vmg, you realize that modern hull needs modern pilots!!
Alain


Edited by Alain & Anne - 26 November 2009 at 18:20
UHAMBO 430e#004
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OCC-RCYC

Our blog: www.uhambo.fr

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samuel View Drop Down
Admiral
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2009 at 16:58
Gregor
I feel that a ladder would be dangerous in a seaway. That is supported by the RYA who advise against ladder rescue in any waves.
Plus it is too cold to go swimming in European waters.
Ido not use the ladder for getting off the dinghy as in a sea this is just as dangerous - I prefer to anchor the dinghy opposite the shrouds & clip the dinghy fore & aft.
I always board by the shrouds so I have a pull point higher than the guardrail which is too low
 
 
For man overboard rescue I have  a simple system
I have a flourescent orange halliard lead through the spinnaker up haul halliard position on the mast. This is lead back to the deck winch . It is flourescent so that it is instantly recognisable to the crew
The hallird is clipped permanently to the spinnaker eye on the mast.
It is long enough to pass round the front of the shrouds & back to the waterline at the stern.
there is a plastic golf ball sewn into the halliard which stops it being pulled up the mast out of reach, which could easily happen in a panic situation if the winch man pulled before the line man was ready.
I can lower the hook into the water & either hook onto the crews lifejackets ( I insist my crew always wear one unless very calm or a full crew on board)or onto a harness which I carry.
It is possible for my wife to winch someone out of the water unassisted. ( albeit a bit slow) On the free end of the halliard I have sewn a figure of eight knot to stop it being run up through the mast if the man overboard was hooked on but was pulled aft of the boat
I do not have a pole but if I did it could still be used to uphaul the pole as I have positioned the golf ball to allow this
 
going back to Alain & Anne's comment
I found the same with the Aeries at first but altering the counterbalance weight & making different vanes helps a lot. I made one vane with 2  strips of venetioan blind glued to the trailing edges. This made it more sensative & helps down wind. As I said it is not the power of the oar that is at fault it is the need to make rapid rudder movements because of the imbalance of the hull. Particularly down wind.
I see lots of vanes attached to boats that are clearly not being used ( the vane that is ) & I suspect that users have not really persevered with the setup.
I even found that altering the distance of the line attachement point on the tiller made differences
The most successful vane was a larger than usual one with a greater counterbalance. I have added an adjustable weight which is quite effective.
Once it is set up right it is a brilliant piece of kit & has kept me going even when totally incapacitated with seasickness ( which is more often than not )
the other advantage is it power, as steering a 311 can be really tiring.
I tend not to steer at all, if I can help it, but jut set up the vane . It is really good fun watching it catch other boats up whilst i am sitting drinking coffee
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Alain & Anne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alain & Anne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2009 at 16:21
We equipped Uhambo with a Windpilot Pacific 2 with two main goals:
= use a wind vane- more beautiful to see in action and energy saver!
= emergency rudder in case of...
After two years and 12000 NM, I have to say that the two goals were not achieved 100%.
Of course we did not use it as an emergency rudder as the main one is still working well. but we never get a 100% operating  wind vane.
I had a Windpilot on our previous boat and I am a bit disappointed but the moves of the 430 are sometime  too great to entrust the windvane. That leads to erratic correction and a couple of time to unexpected tack.
I will sell it and install a second autopilot and a emergency rudder.

Alain
UHAMBO 430e#004
White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising
OCC-RCYC

Our blog: www.uhambo.fr

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Gregor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2009 at 14:33
Thanks for the photo Samuel.

I was curious what you have done to your ladder, however now I see you have none. In case one has to climb out of the water, how do you manage to do that?

Gregor
Uisge Beatha

Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu
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samuel View Drop Down
Admiral
Admiral


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2009 at 13:43
Gregor
Hope this shows what you want
I do not know how to adjust the size so apologies to forum readers if this goes all wrong
 
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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