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Westabo heating

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Arnie View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 December 2016 at 14:48
Can any one help?

I have just purchased a eight year old 470e which has a 5000 Westabo heater with three outlets two 90mm in the cabin and one 60mm in the rear shower room which doubles as a drying room.

Can anyone help me with the maxium number of outlets I could have from this one 5000 watt heater, after I have covered the 90 and 60mm ducting in the heat jacket sleeving. The boat is staying in the UK for the next couple of years while my pals and i get use to is prior to heading off? I would like to keep it warm and dry, not damp as the forward cabin is cold and humid without any heating

Regrads


Arnei
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sailkoop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote sailkoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2016 at 04:51
Hi Arnei,
I've installed a Webasto 5500 in my boat. So, one Main hose 90mm runs from the Stern to the front cabin and ended in a 90mm outlet. Another two outlets (60mm) for the heads, two in the salon and another two 60mm, each in every stern cabin. I am sailing in the Northsea and the Balticsea. Works perfect....
best regards

Bjoern

http://www.sy-serafina.de
Hanse 470e #165

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2016 at 08:16
Hi Arnei,

You can always add a y-piece and run a 60 mm hose to your cold forecabin. This will be the longest hose in your system and normally you do not get enough airflow into the forn cabin. Even insulating the hose does not have a significant effect.

One of my projects for the winter is to install a small laptop ventilator inside the forecabin's outlet.


Frank
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JonB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JonB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2016 at 16:17
Hi guys,

Norse King is a 2008 470e and we have a single 5000 heater. Ours has a 60mm outlet in both rear cabins and heads, one in the saloon and one in the Master cabin, where nothing but apprehension comes out !

After the saloon take off the system is reduced to 60mm.

Again I've spoken to many people including the Webasto team who are helpful here in the UK.  NK is kept in Cowes, Isle of Wight.

I've a sneaking suspicion that part of the ducting that heads to the master cabin has been partially squashed.  Mine tends to turn itself off as it overheats and therefore nothing gets warm and I'll explain this later.

Despite some reservations from the Webasto team, this is what I'm proposing to do this winter.

Replace the main run from heater to master cabin with insulated (sleeved) 90mm duct, change the 60mm outlet to a 90mm of course. Insulate all other runs.  Fit a variable speed fan in line to assist the Webasto fan in drawing the warm air forward.  Variable speed as I can adjust the amount of air (heat) forward.

Listening to ducting Engineers and assuming I've understood correctly, the square area of the duct influences greatly the volume of air that can pass through, hence remove the 60mm to a 90mm forward of the saloon outlet.  It is here I will fit the on line fan, with the variable control at the chart table.  By drawing the air away from the heater unit, it shouldn't over heat and turn off.

The Webasto guys feel that the electric fan will cease with the heat, well that's a start, some heat would be good !

I'll keep you posted on how it goes and how successful it is, alternatively keep an eye on the blogsite.
Jon B
470e
http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk
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Arnie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2016 at 19:27
Dear All,

Thanks for the advise guys,what i think may be the solution is what Bjoen has stated, but i may insert a 3 inch 12 volt fan between the main cabin middle outlet and the main cabin front outlet. Having it installed on a independant rocker switch that would controll its usage to warm the front cabin and front shower and this would allow forusage only when required.

I will be covering all existing and new ducting in the Wabasto thermo ducting cover and will let you know the outcome.

Many thanks and good times aboard to you all

Arnie

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JonB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2016 at 17:48
So, today was thick fog and my hopes to carry on cleaning and polishing the hull was going no where, I turned my attention jobs inside and to the Webasto heater once more.  I decided that as I'm fitting the insulation sock through the entire boat, I'd replace the first length from the heater unit to the first Y junction in the rear port cabin.  This meant that it has to go through the protective plastic duct, which had probably been trodden or sat on at some point squashing it slightly.  I took the lot out as it must be easier to feed it through off the boat.

As you can see from the photo's the 90mm duct on our 2008 boat came with an inter-liner which has come away from the foil duct and created blockages.

  

                 Heater end                                          Y junction end

It appears that the further away from the heat source the inner-liner is not as bad, but this is speculative.  I'm going to fit the insulation sock to the 60mm duct that serves the two rear cabins, the liners don't appear to have detached from the main body but I may as well replace the duct as it's easier to replace with the sock already on rather than try to feed the sock along the duct.

I'll then replace the 90mm to the next two Y junctions, at the saloon heads & the saloon.  This is where I intend to fit the in line variable speed fan, but I'll see how much air flow I now get from the heater itself at this point before making that decision.
Jon B
470e
http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk
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bovine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bovine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2016 at 08:46
Hi Jon
I'm very interested in your fan idea to draw air to the forward cabin,
We had our ducting lagged years ago and it did make a big difference, however the forward cabin being the last in line gets very little heat.
Hydronic is the way forward with bigger boats, it's much easer to circulate hot water to matrix heaters.
David
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2016 at 17:35
Evening Bovine,

The issues I have are that there's nothing but hope that comes out of the master cabin vent and likewise the en-suite shower.  Secondly the unit it self shuts down as it appears to overheat only after a short period of running.  I've replaced the burner and spoke to the manufactures, suppliers & fitters as to gain any help I can, I also spoke to a very helpful chap regarding the ducts.

On Norse King, after the en-suite take off the duct reduces from 90 to 60mm and feeds the master cabin duct at the foot of the bed.  The duct man, suggested that the volume of air or gas that can pass through a duct greatly increases with an increase in cross sectional square area. I'm sure there's an equation on the internet that will prove the case. (Kn=0.066/Pd for air at 20C).  If I can ease the back pressure on the heater unit by increasing the volume, then hopefully the unit will not overheat.  So what if I install an in line fan, downstream of the saloon vent take off, that will enable me to draw the heated air away from the unit and push it towards the master cabin.  A variable speed switch will enable me to control the amount.

I'm not after trying to create a hair drier, after all, mines thin enough as it is these days and a simple shake of the head tends to do the trick.

The Webasto men suggested that this fan will struggle with the heat and pack up, but weren't aware where it is to be installed within the system.

None of the Webasto guys I've spoken to over the years have ever mentioned this liner within the duct that I found, nor its potential to cause a partial blockage.  Clearly this causes back pressure on the heater unit which cuts out as it is unable to reduce the heat from within it.  I'm going to work my way through the boat replacing this lined duct with new together with the insulation blanket and when I reach the Y junction under the chart table make a decision as to whether I feel there's enough air flow to omit the fan or not.

What mustn't be forgotten is that all the time I have a free and open end, air will flow out of it more easily causing the other outlets to appear not to work.  It is only once the system is contained will their be some pressure that will enable the air to pass through the vents.  A euphemism is that of an electric circuit, it has potential which can be easily diverted to earth if you touch the wrong wire.

A stationary fan will create pressure, but enable the two rear cabin, saloon heads and saloon vents to flow.  The saloon vent is of the type that cannot be closed.  Hopefully by closing the two rear cabin vent and increasing the speed of the fan I can draw more heat forward.

That's my thoughts ! 


Edited by JonB - 31 December 2016 at 17:39
Jon B
470e
http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2017 at 11:27
Hi Folks, I am on the same topic as my wife is complaining about the lack of heat in the forecabin. I measured a temperature of only 49 deg at the outlet and a very low airflow. I will install a small laptop ventilator inside the outlet hoping to a) increase the airflow and b) achieve a highter air temperature.
I discarded the solution to install an inline fan further upstream due to measured air temps at the main cabin outlet wellin excess of 60 deg C.
Happy New Year to you all
Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2017 at 17:13
Yes Happy New Year,

What year of manufacture was yours ?

I have no air flow out of the vent in the master cabin nor the en-suite.  Ours is the Air-Top 5000ST I believe.

Today I ran it and measured the air temperature and the velocity within the open ended pipe in the rear cabin.  It reached 102.7C and 8.5 m/s.  I left it running and returned some hours later to find it had turned off again with two flashing indicating a fault with the burner !  However the saloon by then was toasty.  I shut the system down waited for a while before trying to fire it up again, which it didn't want to do.  I checked for an amperage increase in the boats system but this didn't change, an indication that it just shuts down completely and locks out for a while.


Edited by JonB - 01 January 2017 at 17:14
Jon B
470e
http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk
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