110V/220V for Watermaker

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   I am installing a water maker.   It is a do it yourself package so I can place the components where they fit best.
It came with a 2hp single phase AC motor.  110/220V.

I was hoping to run it off the inverter and not needing to run the generator.  Thoughts about this?

I'm not familiar with the AC power onboard.  The AC panel.    I'm thinking I would like to use the "AUX" button on the AC panel to turn power on to the watermaker.  How to I connect and fuse to this panel...or is there a better way to do it?

Thanks!

Rob

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Relentless Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commander Joined: 17 April 2018 Status: Offline Points: 132	Post Options Post Reply Quote Relentless Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 110V/220V for Watermaker Posted: 19 March 2021 at 19:13
	I am installing a water maker. It is a do it yourself package so I can place the components where they fit best. It came with a 2hp single phase AC motor. 110/220V. I was hoping to run it off the inverter and not needing to run the generator. Thoughts about this? I'm not familiar with the AC power onboard. The AC panel. I'm thinking I would like to use the "AUX" button on the AC panel to turn power on to the watermaker. How to I connect and fuse to this panel...or is there a better way to do it? Thanks! Rob

Black Diamond Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 1275	Post Options Post Reply Quote Black Diamond Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 March 2021 at 23:35
	Rob, there is usually a huge start up draw on our watermaker that must be managed. I'm not sure how big the watermaker is that you are installing, but look at that dynamic. And yes, we used the AUX button on the panel for the watermaker. We also have a remote for the watermaker and a monitoring light (making water, fresh water flush, etc.) below the generator controls (see picture). Our watermaker (Blue Water Desalination) is AC, but we run it off the generator when not at the dock and it uses the 220 AC rather than 110 to enable a soft-start feature built into the watermaker. Its a 38GPH watermaker though. Why not go with DC watermaker and solar panels? If you are going to run it off batteries anyway? A Spectra Catalina MKII would give you 14GPH and run nicely off solar. Rick Edited by Black Diamond - 19 March 2021 at 23:44
	Rick S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI

Wayne's World Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 18 July 2012 Location: Cruising Status: Offline Points: 1434	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wayne's World Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 March 2021 at 13:28
	Rob, We run a HRO Escape 400 (GPD or 60 liters per hour) watermaker on 12V DC from the battery bank and can run it with solar or engine alternator or generator providing the top up of batteries. If you are motoring or motorsailing the engine alternator keeps the batteries topped up. The draw is about 28amps. Our dive compressor runs about a 2hp 220V 50hz motor and our 10kva generator handles the starting load easily as long as we are not running any other large power consumers. I think you could add a soft start (VSD - variable speed drive) to a 110V unit to greatly reduce the start up load if necessary. If you want more that 60 liters per hours you may need to go to an 110V Ac motor but I find it more flexible to have a 12V unit. Your question about a breaker for the unit - the AUX switch incorporates a breaker which on our boat is a 16amp.
	Wayne W Cruising, currently in the Pacific until the end of 2026.

Relentless Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commander Joined: 17 April 2018 Status: Offline Points: 132	Post Options Post Reply Quote Relentless Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2021 at 11:43
	Good stuff Rick and Wayne!!! I'm committed to the AC motor, I already have it. the Motor is actually 1hp, 60hz 115/230 VAC. They sent a 2 hp by mistake when I ordered the kit. I don't understand the AC power grid on the boat. The invertor produces 115? or 230? then next to the inverter is a transformer which converts. On the AC rocker switch panel, the left side seems to work on the inverter. ie: sockets, dish washer... but the right side requires shore power or the generator: ie air conditioners and water heater. Where are the distribution panels for this stuff? I'm thinking of a residential panel with 2 legs of 115V AC and a common neutral with breakers. But the fact that some of the AC systems on the boat are connected to run on the inverter, while others must run on the generator has me confused. Where do I tap into these power supplies? where are they fused? Pulling the AC rocker panel out to access the back side might not happen. I can only pull it out a few inches because of the tension from all the wires connected to the back of it. hopefully a simple solution. Thanks!!!

Black Diamond Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 1275	Post Options Post Reply Quote Black Diamond Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2021 at 11:48
	The inverter on a 575 produces 230V AC. There is a Victron autotransformer which takes the 230V AC and creates two legs of 110 from it. Each leg of the 110V AC maxes out at 16AMPS. You need to be careful because you might think you have more amps than actually is the case. The gating factor on 110 is both the power of the inverter and then the separate leg of 110 from the autotransformer. These are both behind the starboard settee forward of the nav station. One note.. you might see what people speak of as an "open neutral" on the autotransformer. The green wire running to the outlets is open. In reality, the outlets (if you put a tester in them) are grounded, but they are grounded to the bonding system, not the 110V AC coming from the autotransformer. Its how HANSE and many European boat makers do the 110V for US markets. Usually not a problem, but for your awareness. As I said, you should be able to do what you want off the AUX switch on the panel (unless its used). That's what I did, and its for 230V, not 110V, but either should be OK. Edited by Black Diamond - 25 March 2021 at 12:47
	Rick S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI

Arcadia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 27 November 2017 Location: Sag Harbor, USA Status: Offline Points: 1112	Post Options Post Reply Quote Arcadia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2021 at 22:51
	Just a heads up Rob. The AC distribution is a bit confusing on these boats, but there are practical reasons that they designed it the way they did. Basically, the AC panel has two columns of switches/breakers. The left side is inverter supplied, some of which are 240 volt directly from the inverter and others (outlets, microwave, TV), are 120 volt from the step down transformer. BTW, there is only ONE leg of 120 volts present for all the 120 volt breakers. The right hand column of beaker/switches are fed by the generator at 240 volt. These serve the aircon units, the aircon water pump, water heater, etc. In addition to the above, all circuits will revert to shore power at 240 volts. It comes into the boat as a balanced 240 feed but passes thru 2 isolation transformers which convert to two separate unbalanced 240 volt feeds, one for each side of the AC panel. The 120 volt domestic outlets will still get fed thru the step down transformer. So in the end you can choose 240 volt generator feed, 240 volt inverter feed, or 120 inverter step down feed depending on which breaker you choose. Be careful working on the back of that panel...it’s very tight in there.
	Leon / ARCADIA 2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY

Relentless Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commander Joined: 17 April 2018 Status: Offline Points: 132	Post Options Post Reply Quote Relentless Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 March 2021 at 21:44
	this is very helpful!! I found a spare socket on the back of the AC panel that will output 230VAC from the inverter. So the next question is that if I’m connected to shore power, or if I run the generator, will this socket still be drawing power they the inverter? Or does all the power get drawn from the gen or shore when we turn the selector switch accordingly? The project is coming along nicely so far!!

Arcadia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 27 November 2017 Location: Sag Harbor, USA Status: Offline Points: 1112	Post Options Post Reply Quote Arcadia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 March 2021 at 22:09
	Glad you found a good source. If it’s from the inverter, then you are good. The inverter automatically switches to “bypass” mode when shore power or generator are present, thereby feeding 240v to the inverter output. You’ll have 240v via battery, shore or genny.
	Leon / ARCADIA 2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY

Pzucchel Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 13 March 2020 Location: floating Status: Offline Points: 659	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pzucchel Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 March 2021 at 08:11
	Hi arcadia, You post made my day, I didn't realize it! Do you think it may be possible to put all sockets on the inverter? I have low power aoircon and a kvh satellite that runs on 220V...the boat is european, so all my connections are at 120V.in the meanwhile, I will study the electrical circuit design...
	Hanse588#55

Black Diamond Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 1275	Post Options Post Reply Quote Black Diamond Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 March 2021 at 11:59
	There is still an AMPS issue. You will need to do the math.. From the Victron web site: www.victronenergy.com An autotransformer can be used for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes. While the step up and step down functions are fairly straightforward, split phase output balancing may require some more attention. Consider for example a 30A 120/240V split phase supply.The supply could be the grid, a generator or two stacked inverters.Some of the loads connected are 240V, others are 120V. On each 120V leg the load should not exceed 30A. The problem is that as soon as 120V loads are connected, the two legs will show a different current. This is because the 120V loads on the two legs will never be balanced. A 120V 1200W hairdryer, for example, will draw 10A from one leg. A 120V washing machine could even draw in excess of 20A from one leg. Between the two legs the difference in current, or current unbalance, will therefore often be 20A or more. This means that the 30A supply will not be used up to its full potential. By the time one leg draws 30A, the other leg may be drawing no more than 10A, and increasing the 240V load, for example, will result in an overload of one leg while the other leg still has spare capacity. Theoretically, the total power that can be drawn from a 30A 120/240V supply is 30 x 240 = 7,2 kVA.In case of 20A unbalance, the practical maximum will be 30 x 120 + 10 x120 = 4,8kVA, or 67% of the theoretical maximum. The solution is an Autotransformer. By leaving the neutral of the split phase supply unused, and connecting an Autotransformer to create a new neutral, as shown in figure 1, any load unbalance is ‘absorbed’ by the Autotransformer. In case of a 30A supply, the load can be increased to 7,2kVA, and a 20A load unbalance will result in one leg supplying 40A, and the other leg 20A. The 20A difference will flow through the neutral and the windings of the Autotransformer. The current through both 120V wires of the split phase supply will be 30A
	Rick S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI



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