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370/400 what sails do you use for racing? |
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Rubato
Admiral
Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1806 |
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Topic: 370/400 what sails do you use for racing?Posted: 28 January 2007 at 07:57 |
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Wondering what sails people are successfully using in racing the 370s and 400s?
My 400 is in commissioning and on the recommendation of the dealer and sailmaker, I have the following on order from Sobstad for racing...
A maxi jib and a mainsail (bigger roach than the standard main) believe it is the Genesis Platinum Vectran series. The maxi jib is about 108% and will sheet inside the shrouds. With the bigger roached main, I'm having to change the wire backstay to line - using PBO. What have others done to get a bigger roached main to tack/gybe easier around the backstay?
To avoid a high aspect chute that tends to be less stable, I'm using the code 6 to the top of the forestay.
That's about all I can afford for now. We do get some pretty light breezes at times during the summer 5-8 knots so it will be interesting to see how much power I have from this combination. Hoping to avoide a big overlapping genoah. Is anyone racing with one, in what conditions?
Steve
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John Allison
Rear Admiral
Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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Posted: 29 January 2007 at 20:20 |
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Hi Rubato,
No wish to spread any alarm but I'd suggest you double check the use of backstay you propose - easpecially as I assume you'll release pressure when tacking / gybing?
We've a similar (but 3 spreader) rig set up on our 461, and started asking questions of Hanse UK plus local riggers when it appeared to invert once all backstay pressure was released.
Seems the stays were set as they should be - and got a note from Hanse Germany to warn that if sailed in any breeze, uphill or down, I MUST maintain a backstay pressure of xx psi (sorry can't recall what but we marked it on the adjuster to ensure we never went below) or we'd risk loosing the rig!
So methinks it may be worth you double checking and getting in writing a Hanse OK to your proposals.....
Cheers
JOHN
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No longer a Hanse owner - but loved the one we had!
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MYTHOS NIKOS
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 June 2008 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Posted: 08 January 2009 at 20:40 |
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Hi Rubato! I am about to order sails for racing ! I only have the standard ones that came with the boat . Trying to point out wich woud be the best choice its getting more and more difficult to deside
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GREEK MYTHOS 400e#498 [URL=http//www.mythos-sailing.com
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Rubato
Admiral
Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1806 |
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Posted: 09 January 2009 at 17:15 |
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Nikos.
I'd be happy to share a few thoughts but there are so many variables this isn't a 2 minute job...
First off, let's get some datapoints to describe your particular situation.
How often are you going to race? every week, 1 or 2 a month, only couple of times a year.
What type of races? Longer distance or "round the cans"
What wind conditons do you want to be competitive in, what wind range is typical for your particular racing area?
Something else to consider, but I'm not yet competent in my knowledge
Steve
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silversailor
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Joined: 25 May 2005 Location: South Haven, MI Status: Offline Points: 1021 |
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Posted: 10 January 2009 at 00:44 |
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I do a lot of daysailing, weekly around the buoy yacht club races and several long distance (70-200 miles) races. Since light air (under 10K) is not unusual on Lake Michigan, I added a 135 which has substantially improved overall light air performance. What I like about the 135 is that it can stand up to 25 knots as well. I have a small asym and hope to add as large a asym as I can without penalty. I'll use the small one for heavier air and the larger one for light air. This, I think, is an inexpensive way to move from cruising to racing. No, I will not be the fastest 370 out there, but I will be competetive.
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Silversailor
South Haven, MI USA S/V Legacy 2010 Andrews 28 |
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MYTHOS NIKOS
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 June 2008 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Posted: 10 January 2009 at 21:59 |
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Hi everybody! For the last 15 years I 'm racing under IMS (ORCi now) with my beloved FEELING 1090 (FOR SALE NOW) and will follow with H400e . I do about 15-20offshore races annualy all the wind scale. The problem is : Hanses are slow under 10 knts . In open angles is no issue if an assym is used right ? Beating in light wind is an issue for me ! According to the polardiagramm the140% gives a 0,2 knt more than the 105% after 50 degrees . Considering the penalty in the rating does the 140 pay back actualy? Or maybe a light 108% highroached gives same results with lot lesser penalty? Ofcourse this can be folowed up by a code 0 over 45 degrees. What is your opinion about ? cheers Nikos
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GREEK MYTHOS 400e#498 [URL=http//www.mythos-sailing.com
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Rubato
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Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1806 |
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Posted: 12 January 2009 at 22:06 |
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Since you asked, here’s some personal opinions and observations regarding the racing performance of my Hanse 400e. Hopefully you’ll find it helpful in evaluating some of the options that you may be considering. First, it’s necessary to put this in context from two aspects; the racing environment that I’m in (Vancouver, BC, Canada) and the boat configuration that I have. Vancouver racing environment – I do most of racing in a Vancouver Area Racing Council (VARC) set of races that starts in late march and finishes in late October. There are 5 or 6 divisions that race. The boats are allocated to different divisions according to rating only. I race in Division 2 which has a rating range of GPH = 600.1 to 630 as calculated by ORC Club. There are not enough boats racing to further break this down into light versus heavy boats. This results in a division where there is a very large range of yacht weight, type, etc. It is an extremely competitive division and includes the following: J109, J35/36/37, Dash34, Ben First 36.7, Ben 10R, Antrim 27, C&C 44, SR33, Grand Surprise. Quite a range! The races are broken into 2 types – “round the cans” (windward/leeward) and distance. As you would guess, it’s difficult for a large heavy boat to compete effectively in light air in round the cans style racing with something a third it’s weight but that’s what we quite often try to do… So now you understand what I mean by the term “competitive”. Winds in the Vancouver area can vary greatly but I’d characterize them primarily in the light to medium range 5 – 10 knots with the average in the 6-8 knot range. We get the odd race where we see 15-25 knots but they are few and far between. So Vancouver’s average wind range is lighter than the ideal for a Hanse. Rubato configuration – late 2006 production 400e, standard keel, traveler in the cockpit, primary winches (46s) in the more forward position, 108% Vectran Genesis Platinum jib sheeted to cabin top mounted tracks, 581 ft2 Vectran Genesis Platinum main, Code 6 0.75oz Symmetrical Spinnaker (1422 ft2, uses over sized Carbon pole, 16.75’ long), PBO backstay. Current Competitiveness – Rubato is quite competitive in the wind range of about 9 knots (4.5 m/s) and above. In wind speeds above 14 knots (or thereabouts) we are very competitive (dominating?). In the 7-8 knot range we are disadvantaged and when the wind goes light, below 6 knots, we might as well break out the beer and rum. The boat is definitely suited more to the longer distance races than to round the cans. This is for 2 reasons; weight and pointing ability. Weight – it’s a heavy boat so you accelerate slower out of tacks and going around marks. Pointing ability is okay but not great; particularly in the lighter stuff. It’s only a few degrees off most other boats but it’s noticeable. On longer distance races you are generally sailing on a broader range of angles to the wind. So distance races are better for the boat versus windward/leeward courses where being lighter and having the best pointing ability really gives an advantage. So here are some notes about some of the decision made so far. The reason for picking the sails that I did was available funds – I didn’t have a lot of money to invest in a wide range of sails or to experiment so it was a best guess. It was unknown what wind range the 108% jib would be competitive. So that's my opinion, take it for what it's worth and remember, you get what you pay for :) Steve |
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MYTHOS NIKOS
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Joined: 18 June 2008 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Posted: 12 January 2009 at 23:28 |
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Hi Steve!
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GREEK MYTHOS 400e#498 [URL=http//www.mythos-sailing.com
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MYTHOS NIKOS
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 June 2008 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Posted: 12 January 2009 at 23:33 |
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Sorry I forgot to mention ! Main traveler IS in the cockpit and jib traveler is going to be instaled on cabin top ofcourse!
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GREEK MYTHOS 400e#498 [URL=http//www.mythos-sailing.com
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Rubato
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Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1806 |
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Posted: 13 January 2009 at 17:37 |
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Nikos,
Thanks for your note, interesting information indeed. I wonder though, although the trials showed that the boat wouldn't peform to the rating/predicted performance with a 140%, is it still better off using this sail than a 108%? I guess I have a difficult time understanding how a 108% light jib is going to be much better than a 108% med-heavy one? Sure, if designed for light area, it's performance will be slightly better than a heavier sail but in the end the boat still won't have enough power in light air will it?
So to me it looks like we have 2 choices, neither which is ideal. Either stick with the 108% jib, optimized for light air, and hope like heck the wind picks up so you can actually race. Or, get a 140%, take a rating hit for light air which we might not be able to perform to but at least be move around the course with the other boats (ending up perhaps not doing that well on corrected time). Both results are disappointing but I like the idea of at least moving around the course with the other boats....
Am I underestimating the performance of a 108% designed for light air? I'm interested in your and others' opinion on that. I'll also put it to the couple of local sail makers...
Steve Edited by Rubato - 13 January 2009 at 17:40 |
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