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400e Inner Forestay - Deck chainplate solution?

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Mark_J1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 April 2021 at 11:27
Hi,

I’m after photos and insight please from anyone who has successfully created a solid inner forestay deck mount on the 400. 

I’ve found some photos on the forum and some valuable insight from the likes of Gertha and others. However, the mix of carpentry for the asymmetric berth and the bow thruster all cause a variety of issues on our 400. Hence the approach of  ‘triangulation’ through the fore cabin and anchor locker to the front bulkhead is not looking viable (or possibly viable but overly complex). 

This came about as my lockdown boat upgrade project has been a mid-life mast refurb and upgrade on our 400e delivered in 2005. As the mast was off receiving various shroud and foot reinforcements etc it was possible to add both a Trysail track and an inner forestay for ‘relatively’ little extra. However after some months without a mast it’s now back and the riggers are working with me on a solution for fixing the inner forestay at deck level. 

Anyone had any great solutions? Our ‘early’ hull #31 boat doesn’t even have the deck reinforcement for pole down haul. 

Current thinking is not to trust the deck and anchor moulding at all. In some way we’ll create a disguised beam across the cabin   and spread the load to the hull. 

Thanks

Mark

Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31
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Ratbasher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2023 at 12:50
Hi Mark - after experimenting with my slide-over-the-jib storm jib it's obvious that its largely a waste of time & space.  Did you solve the issue of strengthening the foredeck, please?  
H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' Gosport, UK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2023 at 12:02
Hi Iain - riggers & I shared some thinking back and forth. In the end I have a very substantial flat SS316 beam across the forecabin  ceiling. It’s just aft of the anchor well, & extends fully out to and under the deck to hull tabbing. 

Grey Goose has a tunnel thruster and the asymmetric berth. So going through deck and back of the anchor locker wasn’t possible without ‘cosmetically unacceptable’ responses from the Admiral. The SS beam is highly polished and gives a nice looking result. Though it does have to have the 3 bolts from the on-deck D-ring showing through. 

On brief tests (using the wind funnelling effect at Sheerness) in 40kts the inner forestay works well. No issue seen with bending of the beam and I had the runners fully loaded.  I do need to sort an improved sheeting option for the storm jib (inner jib track)  but the Genoa cars are good enough (might use the STJ sheet as a barber hauler to create a narrower slot next time I try things).  To be fair it hasn’t yet had ocean passage type trials and is early days so make your own judgements! :)  I’m pleased with the result & the Admiral is happy. 

Btw If I ever feel the beam is not strong enough, I have the backup option of fitting a D-Ring to the underside & then taking a removable wire down through the bunk to bulkhead chainplate.  Probably as a ‘V’ connection to the hull ahead of the water tank. That probably makes the bunk less useful temporarily but I doubt I’d be sleeping in it if the conditions need the inner forestay setup!  At least the current approach leaves the bunk untouched. 

I’ve noted different opinions re the need for running back stays. I went with them as ‘belt & braces’. Dyneema is a huge advantage for these. They tuck out of the way fairly well when not in use. They also make for a permanently set up MOB recovery option. They also see use as lifting strops for pulling stuff up off the pontoon or dinghy :)

 Finally, the Highfiled Lever needed for the inner forestay is damed heavy & needs securing well when not in use!  I had clips fitted on the spreaders so the inner can be pulled back and clipped out of use. If you do the same make sure the 2 spreader clips go opposite directions to avoid it waggling free. The lever then sits down on the chainplate & can be held there fairly well with soft shackles. I may make a more dedicated mount in time to take out the little bit of remaining slack. 

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2023 at 17:53
Many thanks for such a comprehensive reply, Mark; I'm planning the 'winter upgrades' and checking out options.  We've got exactly the same forecabin layout so would face the same issues.  We intend strengthening the area around the (new) forehatch as the wretched thing has leaked consistently due to movement between the hatch and frame so the forecabin will already be having some major surgery.  We're considering cruising the Orkneys & Shetland next year so having a credible storm jib is attractive.  Thankfully, I've access to excellent riggers and S/Steel fabricator.   All the best!

Iain


H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' Gosport, UK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2023 at 18:39
FYI Iain.  Couple of dockside photos of the overall result including the trysail track.  I don't have any of the beam internally to hand.  The sails are so bright I swear the solar panels gave more output!

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2023 at 15:59
Seriously impressive; many thanks again.  I've relied on a deep 3rd reef that we can rig from the cockpit and (so far!) its been fine up to the top end of a F7 - but I wouldn't like to use it much beyond that.  The trouble would really come if we decided that we were still overpowered as the sail would then have to be physically handed and properly secured to the boom, a risky task in such circumstances in any boat, let alone a light displacement one.  I've only ever set a trysail in anger once on a Victoria 34 for a F9+ on a channel crossing and can recall how comparatively easy it was. 

I'd agree that running backstays would give the rig greater integrity in such conditions (and a greater feeling of security) particularly as the sea state could risk some nasty shock loads.   One simple change we made this year that has certainly  aided at least the feeling of security was replacement of the guardwire across the transom with a hinged s/steel bar.  We did it as part of the new arch but it could easily be a 'stand alone' mod.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yoda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2023 at 20:51
Originally posted by Ratbasher Ratbasher wrote:

One simple change we made this year that has certainly  aided at least the feeling of security was replacement of the guardwire across the transom with a hinged s/steel bar.  We did it as part of the new arch but it could easily be a 'stand alone' mod.
Would be very interested to see a picture of this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2023 at 11:40
Hi Neil - please excuse the 'holiday snaps' nature of the pics but they illustrate the concept nicely.  When the transom bar is raised to give access to the stern I secure it to the Arch but it could just as easily be secured to the backstay. This is a very cheap mod that we added almost as an afterthought in the design of the Arch but we've been really surprised by the amount of extra security we feel it gives.  A lot more comfortable too - and safer if a man wants to go 'water the fishes' from the stern.

The other pic shows the extension of the pushpit the length of the cockpit.  Although this is obviously a more costly mod, it adds to security when moving between the cockpit and deck in any form of sea state. 






H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' Gosport, UK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2023 at 19:29
Iain - I like the solid bar on the transom. Have often thought of doing something similar. I’d love the solar arch & pushpit changes too but it will have to await the next boat budget input!  I wonder if I could get (yet another) solar panel hanging from that transom bar for longer trips? :)  

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yoda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2023 at 23:02
That's fantastic, thank you. 
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