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Anchor Snubber / Bridle

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MADaM View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 September 2022 at 08:55
Hi, one of my winter projects is to splice up an anchor snubber.

After sitting on a mooring the last few weeks I am surprised about how much she sails around. I have yet to anchor out in any breeze, but assume the problem will be the same /worse.

Do any of you have strategies to minimise? do you use a straight snubber or a bridle... and either way how long? Pics helpful if any of you have them.  

Alternatively have any of you done anything structurally (Sprit with double roller fx) that is worthwhile?

/M
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Martin&Rene View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Martin&Rene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2022 at 17:14
I think sailing around on a mooring or anchor is just a common feature of modern yachts.  On anchor, the main concern is that at the end of the swing, the yank on the anchor may dislodge it, particularly if you are using an all chain rode that does not absorb the shocks.  A recent article in a UK magazine covered this and his approach was to use a long snubber made of climbing rope (as it is so elastic) and he even made the the snubber very long by securing it at the back of his yacht or catamaran.  

(If you pm your email, I will see if I can find it.)

This is my approach.  When I bought my yacht it had a very short bridle with a chain hook, so I run out the chain to around 3X water depth, put on the anchor hook bridle to protect the winch as I back up in stages to set the anchor.    I then remove that hook and what I use as a snubber is 10m of 3 strand nylon rope.   I just fasten it, at what I consider is the right distance, to the chain using just a rolling hitch, leaving long tail.  Having run out the chain and secured the snubber, I then run out an extra 3-4m of chain, so that the nylon snubber takes all the load.   I actually use the short bridle and chain hook so that the snubber runs over the anchor roller on the centre line of the yacht.  

I do not think that using a bridle to the bow cleats on an anchor snubber makes any impact on how much the yacht swings on anchor and it brings its own problems on a yacht with a vertical bow.  

On a mooring, I am lucky, as I can lift my anchor and drop it into the anchor locker and just take the mooring strop over the anchor roller to the deck cleats. 

Look on the 575 forum for a big discussion on this topic of protecting the bow.

 
Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland
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Lyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2022 at 18:53
Mantus Marine makes a nice bridle/snubber.  The complete solution from them includes (a) chain hook, (b) monster carabiner for mooring use, and (c) a line that is pre-spliced for bow cleats and the thimble with some chafe guard.  Then, the preferences & debate can begin.  Fortunately, you can also pick & chose what you like and feel comfortable with or how you intend to use it.
  • Some may not feel comfortable using the carabiner to attach to a mooring pendant particularly if it is to leave the boat (me, for instance).  You can substitute a different attachment of your own to the thimble and/or attach a separate security line.
  • Some may prefer the old-fashioned chain grabber for the anchor.  You can substitute a different attachment of your own to the thimble.
  • Some may prefer un-spliced ends so that they can vary the tie-off to reduce chafing in one spot.  You can just buy the hardware you like and use your own line or decide to monitor it.
  • Some may still prefer to tie to the chain or maybe they transition to rope rode.  They have a Snubber Pendant that can help for that.

You can also stow it all in their wet bag.  I've been very happy with it.  The hardest part is getting myself out onto the bow roller to attach to the chain hook.  If you do go this route, make sure the channel width on your extended bow roller can accommodate the width of the chain hook.  They publish the dimensions for you to check.


As Martin&Rene notes, this doesn't help with swing ... just with how it handles the load changes.  There is a post on a "Riding Sail" (https://myhanse.com/anchor-riding-sail_topic13175.html?KW=riding+sail), though I think the intent of that was for comfort while at anchor/mooring.


Jon
S/V Lyn
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32mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 32mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2022 at 01:06
Here’s my solution.

I took a 50’ dock line and doubled it. I spliced an eye in one end.  I made a double figure 8 knot in the middle and put a thimble in it. I attached a shackle to that and a chain hook to the shackle. I put the spliced eye on one bow cleat and attach the chain hook to the anchor chain. I run the chain and both ends of the line over the the rollers of the bow sprit until it is at the desired length - so it’s below the water and taught on the spliced side. I then cleat off the other end to the other side bow cleat. Then I  run about 10’ more chain out so that the line is taking the tension and the chain is loose.

I tried using this as a bridle from both cleats and not through the bow rollers but the bridle would rub against the chain as the boat swung. That was way too much noise all night in the forward cabin. After I switched it up to the bow roller it was much improved. I’ve shortened the length from my original set up a bit. Still experimenting with that but it requires re-tying the middle knot. My only concerns are whether the doubled up line is elastic enough and how sturdy the bow rollers are in respect to side loads.
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2022 at 06:39
I started experimenting with snubbers last year when I only had one bow roller in use.  I wanted to use a long polypropylene three strand rope back to the centre cleats to give elasticity.  I spliced thimbles into the ends of two 12m lines and joined these to my chain hook with a shackle.   Initially I tried running this out through the middle of the bow cleats but this just pulled the chain back onto the stem so I adapted to using a single line (rather than a bridle) over my single bow roller which was already occupied by the chain.  This worked but the rope and chain became entangled resulting in chafe.
This season I got the second bow roller repaired (the pin had worked lose resulting in loss of the roller) and was able to use for the snubber as I had originally intended.  I run the snubber rope through a long length of hose pipe to avoid chafe from the bow fittings.
Early in the season I anchored in 30kts with significant swell and I am convinced that a snubber needs to be at least 10m long to give up to two metres stretch.  A short snubber will protect the windlass but will not have sufficient elasticity to stop snatch on the chain (and anchor).
If I was doing this again I would use 18m lines to allow me to take them back to the stern cleats or winches.
My setup still uses two ropes, however the second is not tightened, rather it provides a backup and prevents loss of the chain hook should the active line fail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ian Coverdale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2022 at 09:07
All our lines are Octoplait (8-strand) ... more expensive but easier to handle. We chose polyester (PES) line from Liros as it has a 20% stretch alleviating need for springs or those rubber things in mooring lines ... the elasticity is also great for anchor snubber.

We made the snubber. Each leg is 10m (~30') which seems excessive but can be tied short if needed. In a good strong blow with all our chain out, 10m with 20% elasticity takes out all the snatch. At centre we spliced a thimble for shackle and chain hook. The same bride is used if leaving boat for long periods on mooring buoy by removing chain hook and putting bigger shackle directly through mooring buoy eye.

Works for us.

PS: Like S&J's idea of using two separate lines ... we'll change ours to that arrangement this winter.



Edited by Ian Coverdale - 03 September 2022 at 09:16
Ian & Andrea
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Martin&Rene View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Martin&Rene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2022 at 14:12
For 32Mike

The article that I mentioned, says that an 8mm climbing rope single rope snubber would do for a 30' yacht, for up to 40' he recommends 10mm, 12mm for 40'-50' and 14mm for over 50'.

As per your comments, if you go to large on the diameter, or have too many ropes, then you start to loose the energy absorbtion effect and you end up increasing the potential shock loads. 

By taking his snubbers to the back of his yacht, he can set up a snubber 30m long. 
Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richarddaltry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2022 at 22:44
Our 461 also sails around on anchor. There is an old thread on this forum about using a drogue on the chain a meter or two below the waterline. I have tried it but with limited success so far. I think the drogue needs a swivel and something to hold it open all the time. I shall keep experimenting.
Rich

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MADaM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2022 at 10:54
I tried this on an older boat but it can get pretty messy. I kept getting wraps and gave up on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MADaM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2022 at 10:58
Sounds like the right solution. Unfortunately I only have the single bow roller. Madam goes up at Sweden yachts next month so i might see if they can help me MacGyver something!
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