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Continuing anchor discussion

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Rock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2022 at 12:04


My experiment with the  teak piece of wood to hold my 20kg Vulcan in place on the standard H400 bow roller, has failed.

Partly because the Hanse factory roller itself is flimsy/bendy (3mm sheet metal).

Now thinking about asking a metal worker to copy the standard roller in 5mm SS sheet metal.

And to add the Mantus anchor Mate, to fix/secure the anchor.
Actually a bit confused, there is talk about the anchor mate and the anchor guard.
And I see different shapes in PU inserts.
it looks like one type of insert locks the fluke, while the other grips the shank.
Is that depending on the size ?
mark (grey goose), you mention using the smaller size, mantus call that ‘medium’ (up to 85lbs anchors), right?
What does your PU insert look like?

Upgrading the boat is  fun but these little sizing issues sometimes cause headaches.

Anybody any insight?

Best regards,
Peter 


Edited by Rock - 30 December 2022 at 12:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2022 at 20:50
Peter - when I’m next on Grey Goose I’ll grab you a shot of the Anchor Mate doing its thing with my 20Kg Manson Supreme. The combination work well. The anchor mate works to secure the flukes tightly with the shank hard against the roller. No movement at all even in significant seas. 

Agree with you re the original anchor roller being ‘slimline’!  I’d also like to get another made up in thicker SS. That said, it’s survived a lot of anchoring in the last couple of years. 

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2023 at 13:42
Here you go Peter. LH or RH version of Anchor Mate will fit standard roller. LH is possibly a little easier to fit but RH works fine for me. 

Mark




Edited by Mark_J1 - 02 January 2023 at 13:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2023 at 08:23
Thanks markThumbs Up 

Edited by Rock - 03 January 2023 at 08:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2023 at 12:47
Originally posted by Mark_J1 Mark_J1 wrote:

Agree with you re the original anchor roller being ‘slimline’!  I’d also like to get another made up in thicker SS. That said, it’s survived a lot of anchoring in the last couple of years. 

Agree completely and I thought about a replacement in thicker SS as well.  However, the roller assembly is only going to be an issue if the conditions are bad enough to cause the rode to swing violently from side-to-side, exiting at acute angles placing severe strain on the jaws of the assembly.  Shock loading from yawing can be truly massive, easily bending or destroying the fitting and my own bears some evidence of this.  

Having sat out several storms at anchor including a 60 knotter which I was stupid enough not to have run for more shelter from, I rig a twin 10m-legged bridle of 14mm octoplait from the midships cleats through the forecleat gap to the chain below the roller where its attached by a softshackle. While the chain itself still passes over the roller it hangs limply in a long loop and there's no tension in it; all the strain is taken by the bridle.  Should I need to let out more chain I simply move the bridle from the midships to the forecleats and adjust the chafe protection.  This arrangement eliminates snatching, reduces yawing and helps keep the anchor shank at a low angle.

The other instance where the roller assembly might fail is in trying to retrieve a fouled anchor.  Normal practice is to heave the cable in until its straight up and down to allow the natural movement of the boat to break the anchor free.  However, higher waves could generate forces that soon overwhelm the assembly and I don't like to push the issue.  Motoring gently at different angles, diving or even buoying and releasing the anchor are all alternatives but my point is that I'd avoid placing much stress on the roller in this situation.  In extremis I'd rather replace an anchor and cable instead of risking the rig as the roller/forestay fitting suddenly gets torn off, thus ruining your entire day...

Interesting about the Anchor Mate though; many thanks for posting, Mark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2023 at 17:01
Ratbasher - a 2nd vote for a bridle to the midships cleats. I found my 400 sails a lot less at anchor if I do that. Though I do get some funny questions about it in anchorages :)

When lifting the 20Kg Manson I think the standard roller is on its limit but is ok. The anchor digs in well in UK mud, shale and sand seabeds!  I’ve learned to be patient when extracting it if its been down for long & in big winds. I usually drive the boat up to it and shorten scope well before I want to leave. Then just let the chop start to unstick it. Amazing how well an anchor hangs on with less than 2:1 scope when you want it to come out!  If I really expect an issue I use the ‘rock slot’ option on the Manson which helps significantly. 

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote landlocked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2023 at 18:19
Ratbasher:   I've been rethinking my anchor bridle arrangement and it hadn't occurred to me to use the midships cleats.   When you say "forecleat gap" do you mean the chock on the rail at the bow, or the opening in the base of the foreward cleat itself?   Is the idea to provide more stretch in the bridle without putting it all overboard?   (I've tried a long bridle in the water and it gets twisted around the chain).   Does the chafing protection perform ok when the bridle stretches?

Thanks for the post, I'll give it a try next time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2023 at 12:51
Owen - in between the legs of the cleat itself and yes, to provide for a longer bridle.  I've enclosed each leg within 1.5m of anti-chafe webbing which can easily be moved along the leg but which stops in place once set.  Suggest not to use plastic as this will make the rope sweat under load. Although I've no scientific evidence, I think that putting the line through the fore cleat spreads the load between cleats while still permitting the required stretch.  I simply could not believe the stretch I was seeing on the rope at 60kts of wind; it was like something out of the 'Twilight Zone' for those with memories back that far, yet the anchor (single 20kg Rocna) held fast.  I've found 10m to be fine but another option is perhaps 30m each leg taken back around a spinny block aft to a winch, thus allowing greater adjustment.  The bridle could always double as a towing bridle or for a Jordan series drogue (next season's project).  However, this all means that the bridle must be considered a consumable item and replaced every so often.   

Mark - yes, I get comments too.  Last year one was from the guy in Porth Cressa who got a good view of it when he dragged down onto my boat...    I think there's little to choose between your Manson and my Rocna as both are demonstrably miles better than the Delta plough which, err, ploughs.  Hanse should be ashamed of shipping a 15kg hook on anything over 8 tons.  However, its frightening how many boats you see anchored with no snubber at all, presumably with their chain running straight from the windlass. 

As will have become obvious by now, I confess to being an 'anchor bore'.  If anyone is interested in the scientific theory, I can thoroughly recommend the work of Alain Frayyse Forces (free.fr) 

Iain




Edited by Ratbasher - 05 January 2023 at 12:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote landlocked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2023 at 19:33
Iain:   Thanks for these details and the reference material about anchoring forces.   I look forward to a new approach to my anchor bridle setup this year.  I have a 20kg Delta anchor and ironically I had asked my broker to provide a Rocna in 2006 when they were still very new here, but I'd seen some good test reports on them.   The broker decided that would be too much trouble so I didn't get my Rocna and have been a little bitter ever since as I continued to hear good things about them.   I've never dragged my Delta though I've had to  make multiple attempts sometimes to get a good set.   Mind you I have also never anchored in 60 knot winds and hopefully never will!   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martin&Rene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2023 at 20:36
In an article in a UK magazine, the writer recommended 10mm nylon climbing rope as being an ideal bridle rope for 30-40ft yachts, possibly going to 12mm for larger yachts.  He recommended 2 lengths of rope in a bridle over the anchor roller and fastening them right back to the back of the yacht, so that there was at least 10m of rope snubber to absorb the shock loads.  

On a very gusty anchorage, with only about 8m of rope as a snubber, it was interesting to see just how much the slack in the anchor chain was being taken up and yet if you were down in the cabin there was no indication of any shock loads as the yacht yawed about. 
Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland
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