myHanse.com - Hanse Yacht Owners Website myHanse.com - Hanse Yacht Owners Website myHanse.com - Hanse Yacht Owners Website myHanse.com - Hanse Yacht Owners Website

Welcome to myHanse.com the forum for Hanse Yachts owners throughout the world.

Forum Home Forum Home > Hints & Tips > 400
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Continuing anchor discussion
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Continuing anchor discussion

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
Author
Message
Ratbasher View Drop Down
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2017
Location: Cyprus
Status: Offline
Points: 601
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2023 at 06:39
Hi Raimondo - it's a common misconception, made worse by some marketing folk, that a swivel is somehow an 'anchor connector'.  It isn't; its a device to help get the anchor back on the roller the right way up and that should be its only purpose.

Anything you add to your anchoring system adds another potential point of failure; its overall strength is determined literally by its weakest link.  If you consider the design of say, a Kong swivel which is one of the best, it should be pretty obvious that its going to be much weaker with a side load than one in a straight line.  Unless the swivel can freely articulate enough to match the lateral force then its strength will be significantly reduced.  Stainless Steel is also arguably not the best material for sustained underwater use being subject to hidden crevice corrosion and sudden fracture.  These are not things you want to have added to your worry-list when anchored in a big blow.  You might be ok with a bow shackle instead but you might not, if the shackle jams which is quite possible.  I'd recommend about 3-4 links which will pretty much guarantee free movement.

The advice from those with many more miles than I have is consistent:  only use a swivel if you have found you actually need one.  

Have a look at: Kong Swivel Anchor Connector Stainless Steel AISI 316 | Kong (jimmygreen.com) which explains things further - even if they too describe it as a 'connector'.






Edited by Ratbasher - 17 April 2023 at 09:29
H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK
Back to Top
Ratbasher View Drop Down
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2017
Location: Cyprus
Status: Offline
Points: 601
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2023 at 09:28
Here's what I mean.....




Also, every time its pulled over the bow its subject to work-hardening and hence, failure with no warning.  If you really must have one, I'd strongly suggest treating it as a disposable item and change it periodically.

Iain  
H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK
Back to Top
Lyn View Drop Down
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 04 February 2022
Location: Hampton, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 103
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2023 at 19:37
Thank you very much for sharing this and the link for more description.  On my boat, the "swivel connection" joined the anchor directly to the chain.  While contacting Rocna for advice on modifying my roller, they suggested a bow shackle to address some of the orientation issue/degrees of freedom.  As I took it apart to add one in, I was a little concerned that the one pin was so critical to holding the boat.

I've never seen the 3 extra links on any boat I've been on, but that makes so much more sense if you're not assured to always pull in the direction of your anchor set.  A short, but good read that will help me sleep better at night!
Jon
S/V Lyn
2017 Hanse 588 | Hull 19 | Deep draft | 150hp | 220v & 110v systems | Lithium House Bank
Back to Top
Martin&Rene View Drop Down
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 06 December 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 844
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martin&Rene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2023 at 18:14
There have been a couple of articles in the UK magazine Yachting Monthly showing the problems of attaching the swivels direct to the anchor, as demonstrated by Ratbasher, and even using inappropriate shackles and so they have also recommended putting in a 2 or 3 links of chain between the anchor and the swivel.
Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland
Back to Top
Rock View Drop Down
Commadore
Commadore


Joined: 19 September 2014
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 350
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2023 at 19:08


Just to close the loop on my little anchor project.

So decided to purchase off the shelve anchor rol from sailinox @ 329 Euro.

Size and function/design closed to the original Hanse setup.
Most important difference 5mm steel instead the poor 3mm Hanse choice.

The holes for the bolts didnít match the holes in the boat though.
So had 5 holes welded \shut and polished and 5 new holes drilled and countersunk (40 euros).

The first 2 holes (bottom of the anchor roll) did fit, the location of the other 5 I decided based on ensuring sufficient distance between the existing holes in the boat and enough Ďmeatí  in the aluminium plate under the bow.
Then drilled new holes and cut M8 threat (very easily, cutting in aluminium).

All 7 bolts now bite in solid aluminum (wasnít  the case for at least 1 bolt previously).

Happy with the set up now, it feels very solid (100% beter than the original wobbly setup) the Rocna Vulcan also sits solid.

I guess I could have gone for a full customized anchor rol, with a step, possibly combined with bow sprit, but this works well and was rather economic.

Ö and added a shackle between Kong and anchor, to allow for chain swing and pivoting of the Kong

Best regards,
Peter








Edited by Rock - 14 May 2023 at 19:13
Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241
Back to Top
Raimondo View Drop Down
Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Joined: 23 September 2020
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 45
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raimondo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 21:33
Hi Peter,

Which Kong did you buy, KGAC08-S or KGAC10-S ?
Are you happy with it?

Thanks,
Raimondo

400e #499 2009 "Cricca 4" ITA16254
Back to Top
Ratbasher View Drop Down
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2017
Location: Cyprus
Status: Offline
Points: 601
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 08:27
....and here's why I use a snubber rigged in a bridle exiting between the bow cleats; lateral loading forces can be immense.  Imagine these being applied directly to the arms of an anchor swivel....  Note that the fair leads on any Hanse are for decoration only.

 I sympathise with the poor owner as this repair won't be cheap.  If he/she's reading this, please come say 'hi' as my boat is further down the same pontoon.

Iain








Edited by Ratbasher - 27 May 2023 at 08:29
H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK
Back to Top
Rock View Drop Down
Commadore
Commadore


Joined: 19 September 2014
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 350
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 19:17
Hi raimondo,

I have item nr 644100000KK, for 8-12 mm chain.

Guess Iím happy, it hasnít hindered me while anchoring, rolls well over the sheave etc.

I guess you can only say when you you are not happy, when something failed or went wrong.

But the Kong is an extremely solid piece, looks unlikely to fail are break.

Regards,
Peter
Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241
Back to Top
Rock View Drop Down
Commadore
Commadore


Joined: 19 September 2014
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 350
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 19:32
I had a mishap with my old anchor set-up (own fault, I thought my pilot had engaged but it hadnít, then let the wheel go in a marina Pinch), it was  bent.
the upside of the low quality 3mm piece is that one can easily Bend it back.
Take it off, Put it in a vice, and with some vice grips it bends back like putty, youíll  always see where it was damaged, but it got me a couple years.

The snubber is good practice, I just find that Iíll always hear the chain grinding against the boat, as the tide turns. Because passing through the fair leads you pull the chain toward the boat. Where if you let it run over the anchor roll (i sometime do during calm nights) at least there is some distance between chain and boat.
Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241
Back to Top
Ratbasher View Drop Down
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2017
Location: Cyprus
Status: Offline
Points: 601
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2023 at 09:41
Hi Peter - I've not found the chain on the hull an issue as it hangs in a long, deep loop before being connected to the bridle some meters away.  This seems to help limit yawing.

Agree that you can bend the roller arm back, but as you say its only a short-term fix.  I'm looking at ways to redesign it to include a second roller for mooring lines.  A future project to help limit my kid's inheritance....
H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.

Links : www.hanseyachts.co.uk www.hanseyachts.com www.fjordboats.co.uk www.dehler.co.uk www.varianta.co.uk