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medway glory View Drop Down
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Joined: 04 May 2012
Location: dordrecht
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Points: 9 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote medway glory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: engine mounts
    Posted: 04 May 2012 at 22:32
  In my 370 (2006, #93) I had a 3JH/4E ordered. Super machine, only trouble sofar was the bio-diesel.
  I am always very coutious with the use of the engine: low rev's when cold, never accellerating like mad,
  low-rev running for cool-down after long engine trip etc. Last week my "medway glory" was lifted for
  the annual "cut and shave". Just lifted out, the crane driver asked me where I had the accident when
  pointing to my saildrive: it was making an angle of 80 degr. A quick survey inside learned that both
  the front mounts were totally broken, the engine had dropped to starboard, was 2 cm sidewise
  out of position and dropped about 3 cm. In this position it must have been rather stable because I
  have not noticed anything during the last trips from 2011. Further investigation learned that there was
  about 2 cm between the 2 lowest nuts when the engine was mounted in Greifswald. The engineer from
  Yanmar told me that the vibrations could not fully be transmitted to the rubber of the engine mounts
  and that the mayor part of the vibrations had to be taken by the s.s.threads thus resulting in material-
  fatigue in the stainless steel threads. When taking out the broken mounts it became very clear: at the
  break-section it was clearly visible that 50% of the surface had a layer of fly-rust: older haircrack in the
  steel due to fatigue as a result of fibrations in the steel. The other part of the surface had no rust, so
  this crack must have been reasonably "fresh". NB. this year I only motored 500 m from my birth to the
  crane in our marina. I mounted the same type of mounts (original for Yanmar 3JH/4E 40 hp), now with
  zero cm between the lowest two nuts. Operation done with 2 man in 3 hrs. Check your mounts!!!!
sailors have more fun
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 July 2006
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Points: 1806 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2012 at 06:31
A similar thing happened to Kerkyra (400e) a few years ago. Definitely something to keep an eye on...
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168
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Aquila View Drop Down
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Points: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aquila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2012 at 23:11
Had this problem last year with my Hanse400 from 2006
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Mark_J1 View Drop Down
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Points: 690 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2014 at 14:27
Mounts gone on our boat too (400 from 2005).  Very little sign that they had.  The engine has sat down gracefully on the base of the mounts.  Can't think of a 'moment' which would have caused them to fail.  The last significant motor sail was approx 60nm in very light winds Dover to Chatham and the motor behaved well.  Have yet to get the mounts out to inspect but will be interested in the failure mechanism.  

I'm grateful to Rubato and the good ship Kerkyra for the write-up at http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3186 that helps a lot.

I'm considering using these mounts from R&D Marine in preference to the Yanmar ones.  Anyone got any experience of them?  They are cheaper, seem better and hopefully the mechanism of failure will be different :-)

See http://www.randdmarine.com/downloads/RandD_Engine.pdf and http://www.asap-supplies.com/brands/r-and-d-marine/yanmar-engine-mount-y200-207073

Mark
Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31
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Sea-U View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 September 2012
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Points: 476 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sea-U Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2014 at 15:28

Hmm...

Is this a problem with the 29hp engine too, or is it with the heavier 40hp only?
Sea-U is a 370e #532 located SW Norway
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samuel View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 December 2004
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Points: 2770 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2014 at 05:34
Originally posted by medway glory medway glory wrote:

  In my 370 (2006, #93) I had a 3JH/4E ordered. Super machine, only trouble sofar was the bio-diesel.
  I am always very coutious with the use of the engine: low rev's when cold, never accellerating like mad,
  low-rev running for cool-down after long engine trip etc. Last week my "medway glory" was lifted for
  the annual "cut and shave". Just lifted out, the crane driver asked me where I had the accident when
  pointing to my saildrive: it was making an angle of 80 degr. A quick survey inside learned that both
  the front mounts were totally broken, the engine had dropped to starboard, was 2 cm sidewise
  out of position and dropped about 3 cm. In this position it must have been rather stable because I
  have not noticed anything during the last trips from 2011. Further investigation learned that there was
  about 2 cm between the 2 lowest nuts when the engine was mounted in Greifswald. The engineer from
  Yanmar told me that the vibrations could not fully be transmitted to the rubber of the engine mounts
  and that the mayor part of the vibrations had to be taken by the s.s.threads thus resulting in material-
  fatigue in the stainless steel threads. When taking out the broken mounts it became very clear: at the
  break-section it was clearly visible that 50% of the surface had a layer of fly-rust: older haircrack in the
  steel due to fatigue as a result of fibrations in the steel. The other part of the surface had no rust, so
  this crack must have been reasonably "fresh". NB. this year I only motored 500 m from my birth to the
  crane in our marina. I mounted the same type of mounts (original for Yanmar 3JH/4E 40 hp), now with
  zero cm between the lowest two nuts. Operation done with 2 man in 3 hrs. Check your mounts!!!!


Did it damage the saildrive seal

Does anyone know how long  a set of engine mounts should last
Should one change them when changing the sail drive  gasket or do engine mounts last for years
Do I need to carry a spare set?
I do not fancy leaving them until they fail as knowing my luck they will go at a critical moment miles from home !!!


Edited by samuel - 10 February 2014 at 05:35
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Mark&Catherine View Drop Down
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Joined: 18 January 2013
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Points: 1219 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark&Catherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2014 at 07:51
good questions
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine
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Mark_J1 View Drop Down
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Points: 690 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2014 at 09:43
Re your questions Samuel.  Some thoughts below.

No damage to saildrive seal on Grey Goose.  Guess we had a little luck.  You'd have to look really closely to even notice the mounts are broken.  The engine is sitting only a little low and maybe 15mm to Starboard of the correct position.  Given what I know now, I would replace them when doing the engine lift for a saildrive seal change if they haven't been changed recently.

Life expectancy - guess that will depend on usage versus any inherent defect as mentioned in other posts.  My research has found boats reporting anything from 150-1000 hours having this problem.  Ours lasted between about 500-550 hours to my best guess of the timing.  I assume there are many more boats that have never had this failure.  Logically, Yanmar may even have had a bad batch of studs that are spread randomly around the world.

My thoughts are simply to add the engine mount checks to the regular 'extended' check list of rigging, nav lights, bow compartment, etc.  If you go significantly off shore for long periods maybe carry spares (and give yourself time to buy them at a sensible price rather than being faced with 'gotcha' prices at the one yard you can reach).  

USA based members of the site might want to comment, but I have a memory of engine retaining straps being required for US full ocean commercial coding.  These bridge the engine mounts in case of mount failure and stop the engine moving too far.  So if you were really concerned you might consider that belt and braces approach.

I can tell you better once the replacement parts have arrived, but in principal the front pair of engine mounts are not too difficult to change.  For my part, I will get the replacement done, consider if it could be done 'at sea' in calm conditions and then decide whether to actually carry another pair onboard.  

Mark



Edited by Mark_J1 - 10 February 2014 at 09:43
Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31
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panos View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 March 2008
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Points: 1939 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2014 at 09:58
Hi,
We had similar accident with previous boat. The engine was ripped of the engine mounts when the crane lifted the boat with the lifting belt under the saildrive. I cannot imagine any other possible cause of failed engine mounts excluding of course rust and wear, but that would take at least a decade to develop.
Panos

Hanse 630e - selling her -
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samuel View Drop Down
Admiral of the Fleet
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Joined: 26 December 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 2770 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2014 at 18:00
Originally posted by panos panos wrote:

Hi,
 but that would take at least a decade to develop.


Thanks for the confidence boost I am at 11 Th year & 3000 hours !!!!!!!
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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