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FCL sails, reefing

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mglonnro View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 June 2019 at 06:25
Cheers,

We have the FCL sails on our new 388 and I'm trying to figure out when (and if) to reef. 

The main works great and it's easy to get a good shape with the first reef (haven't tried the second). 

The jib is more of a question mark: 

- Is it designed to be reefed? I found a polyester laminate sail on Elvström's page, but not sure if it's the same one (see link). They, however, say: "You have options to add a reef compensator that makes the sail efficient also when reefed". I assume Hanse's standard FCL jib doesn't have that? (I admit I haven't looked at the sail very carefully yet, though.)

- When and how do you generally reef when upwind and reaching? Going upwind 20-24 knots (TWS) with one reef in the main felt great but rolling out all of the jib felt quite overpowered. I'm sure it could have been trimmed/flattened better, but anyway.

- Is there a manual for Hanse's version of the FCL jib anywhere? I remember seeing an empty sailbag, so I have to check if there's something inside that. 

Thank you for your opinions :)


Edited by mglonnro - 26 June 2019 at 09:31
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Ist View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2019 at 10:46
Hi there,
My understanding is that all furrier jibs can be "reefed" by rolling in a few turns. The shape will be less than ideal, but at those wind strengths, that has less of an impact. I would not worry about reef compensator on a cruising boat.

On reefing experience: Upwind I find the boat very balanced, 1 reef at aft 10ms, 2reef at 12+ms. With kids onboard, probably earlier reef. same if difficult sea state. Will roll in the jib abt a third at 2nd reef.

Downwind: the big main can throw the boat off balance. I find this the hardest part to manage down wind in big winds. The roll. And the autopilot /B&G) isn't real for hat either. It exacerbates the rolling by overcompensating. These are fairly wide boats aft, so they are probably better than many others, but still.

We have some elvstrøm tech sails aftermarket.

I
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mglonnro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2019 at 10:54
Thank you for your comment!

Originally posted by Ist Ist wrote:

Hi there,
My understanding is that all furrier jibs can be "reefed" by rolling in a few turns. The shape will be less than ideal, but at those wind strengths, that has less of an impact. I would not worry about reef compensator on a cruising boat.

On reefing experience: Upwind I find the boat very balanced, 1 reef at aft 10ms, 2reef at 12+ms. With kids onboard, probably earlier reef. same if difficult sea state. Will roll in the jib abt a third at 2nd reef.

Downwind: the big main can throw the boat off balance. I find this the hardest part to manage down wind in big winds. The roll. And the autopilot /B&G) isn't real for hat either. It exacerbates the rolling by overcompensating. These are fairly wide boats aft, so they are probably better than many others, but still.

We have some elvstrøm tech sails aftermarket.

I

I'm just a bit worried about breaking the jib or shortening its life too much. On my earlier boats the furling jibs have been strengthened about where they are supposed to be reefed and this jib doesn't seem to have anything like that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2019 at 12:56
My strategy is to reef main first and only think about reefing the jib after putting the second reef in the main.  
I don't have a third reef fitted to my main.
24kts true upwind is probably something like 30kts apparent and I'd definitely want the second reef in the main by then!
Although I have used the jib partially furled, it's not something that I have needed to do often, and I don't like doing this because I do feel it places stress in the sail (and of course the shape of any partially furled headsail isn't great).
Remember these boats have a relatively large main which compensates for the lack of overlapping headsail so you may need to reef earlier than you are used to.

H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2019 at 13:23
Originally posted by S&J S&J wrote:

My strategy is to reef main first and only think about reefing the jib after putting the second reef in the main.  
I don't have a third reef fitted to my main.
24kts true upwind is probably something like 30kts apparent and I'd definitely want the second reef in the main by then!
Although I have used the jib partially furled, it's not something that I have needed to do often, and I don't like doing this because I do feel it places stress in the sail (and of course the shape of any partially furled headsail isn't great).
Remember these boats have a relatively large main which compensates for the lack of overlapping headsail so you may need to reef earlier than you are used to.

 
+1
 
I'd echo above although haven't take my 418 out in that strength of wind yet.
 
My last boat (31' and essentially the same rig; big main and self tacker) would be sailed the same. Full blade jib followed by reef one and then reef two. In fact my "next gear" after than tended to be to drop the main completely and sail under self tacking jib alone. in 27knts or so she would then be beautifully balanced and probably sail nearly as quick.
Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

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mglonnro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2019 at 13:49
Ah yes. 

I guess there is that subconscious feeling that at 22 knots I wouldn't want to be at the last available reef. Stern Smile

Thank you for your valuable comments! I'll try your strategy next time and report back if we're still floating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2019 at 17:28
Originally posted by mglonnro mglonnro wrote:

Ah yes. 

I guess there is that subconscious feeling that at 22 knots I wouldn't want to be at the last available reef. Stern Smile

Thank you for your valuable comments! I'll try your strategy next time and report back if we're still floating.
 
You will be floating ;-)  Yup - I have that feeling too, which is why I had a third reef installed on the last boat, which was never used, and a third reef installed on the Hanse (& I doubt I will ever use it either ;-)
 
For now I have only had the additional reef points added to the sail as I figured it was easier to do that whilst the sail was still new. I haven't yet worked out how I will route the reef lines (I suspect I will have to lose one side of the mainsheet to free up a clutch). Not sure yet how I feel about that as I haven't sailed the boat enough
Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martin&Rene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2019 at 11:02
On other threads, people have said the same as my practice.  1st reef main, 2nd reef main, 3rd reef main and only then think about furling the jib.

This is how I set up a third reef.  As one of the previous comments, it only gets used about once a year, but it is nice to have that facility. 


Also follow the link to how I control the jib.
Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland
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mglonnro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2019 at 08:07
Thank you again, for your advice!

I talked to Elvstrøm as well and wrote a summary of it all here: https://nakedsailor.blog/2019/06/30/dont-reef-the-fcl-jib/

There are some quotes from this thread included. Hope that this is ok Sleepy

One further thing I didn't know is that the FCL sails are manufactured by Dimension Polyant (apparently in cooperation with Elvstrøm, since their logo is on the sail.). 

"FCL is a grey High Performance Cruising laminate from premium producer Dimension Polyant, specially fabricated for Hanse Group. Inner Mylar- and Polyester load string construction is protected by both sides Taffeta, a very strong, durable and shape resistant cloth."
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