Self tacker or 105%?

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   Hi Guys,Im getting all new sails made for a 461. Just wondering if its worth getting another self tacker or going to the 105% overlapper. Is the extra few sqm of sail area worth the trade off, (being the loss of the self tacking). Thanks in advance for any advise!

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Jeremy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commander Joined: 28 February 2018 Location: Auckland NZL Status: Offline Points: 91	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jeremy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Self tacker or 105%? Posted: 21 August 2020 at 07:06
	Hi Guys, Im getting all new sails made for a 461. Just wondering if its worth getting another self tacker or going to the 105% overlapper. Is the extra few sqm of sail area worth the trade off, (being the loss of the self tacking). Thanks in advance for any advise!

Matt1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 10 March 2019 Location: Hamble, UK Status: Offline Points: 727	Post Options Post Reply Quote Matt1 Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 21 August 2020 at 08:54
	My last boat had essentially the same rig as a Hanse, with a high aspect Self tacking jib. I used that a lot around the crowded Solent where I could easily flick in a tack to give way etc Once Offshore I switched to the 105% genoa and much preferred that sail for "proper" sailing. Even that little extra area would open up options off wind and reaching, or beating in lighter airs. That said, my self tacker didn't have the roach and battens that the Hanse self tacker has, so whether the difference would be as discernible on a Hanse I'm not sure. Not an option for me as the 418 doesn't have jib tracks (& I can't see that they could be retro fitted).
	Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

S&J Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 30 August 2014 Location: Perth WA / Med Status: Offline Points: 1371	Post Options Post Reply Quote S&J Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 21 August 2020 at 21:40
	The wide shroud base on the latest Selden rigs make any overlapping sail awkward. I'm not a racer but I do use the spinnaker sheets running through the centre cleat and back to the winch when offwind to help open up the jib.
	H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising

JonB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 21 September 2010 Location: Cowes Status: Offline Points: 504	Post Options Post Reply Quote JonB Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 24 August 2020 at 19:10
	We short sail and so it's a no brainer especially in the Solent as Matt said, but I've a code 0 for the longer runs and have strengthened the bulkhead between the anchor locker/master cabin for the on deck fitting to take a J3 enabling me to have twin sails, or reduce cloth. I have jib cars so that's not an issue. The code 0 is a cruising one so is relatively cut high keeping it clear of the rig. See Code 0 by Money penny previous and winter maintenance plus would likes! Edited by JonB - 24 August 2020 at 19:12
	Jon B 470e http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk

StavrosNZ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 24 October 2014 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 581	Post Options Post Reply Quote StavrosNZ Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 August 2020 at 22:21
	Congrats on the new boat Jeremy, will be lots of fun. Set of sails for 461 will be one big outlay..........
	Stephen 2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand

richarddaltry Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 29 August 2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 26	Post Options Post Reply Quote richarddaltry Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 April 2021 at 23:56
	I just spent this evening in the Solent on our 461 in 20ish knots for a while. I still have a fair bit to learn about how to sail this boat but we ended up at the 3rd reef on the main (suspect we'd have been OK on 2nd with a bit more effort to flatten and twist) and a few rolls on our 105% jib. Even with the jib cars right forward this resulted in quite a poor set which didn't help our pointing ability. I really need to learn/play a bit more but I was wondering if a self tacker on the track would set better in these conditions? Be interested to here others views on this. Another thing to think about is the jib sheet winches on the 461 for the 105%. They are not in a great place to grind if your having to do a lot of it. So we ended up leading the sheets up to the big electric winches. If you do this straight from the cars the sheets rub away at the gelcoat so lead from jib winch up onto big winch. Down side is you have to get the mainsheet off on one tack for a while. Only 5th sail for us on the 461 but I am kind of wishing we had the self tacker for the tight and busy solent. It would be a lot easier! Another future upgrade on the list!

Matt1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 10 March 2019 Location: Hamble, UK Status: Offline Points: 727	Post Options Post Reply Quote Matt1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 April 2021 at 06:32
	My last boat had essentially the same rig and I had a self tacking Dacron jib and a 105% laminate Genoa. I would almost always use the self tacker in the Solent (primarily because the funnelling effect means you end up beating a fair bit, but also because of the frequent need to give way. Flicking a quick tack in is so easy with the self tracker and minimal loss of speed / progress). Once outside the Solent I’d switch to the Genoa which even though only marginally bigger gave a nicer set, especially once the wind came aft. I miss the Genoa on a 418 for longer passages but the leach Batten’s help on the self tacker and there is no easy way to fit tracks for a Genoa on a 418 (although I’ve seen some fitted on a Facebook post recently.
	Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

Martin&Rene Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vice Admiral Joined: 06 December 2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 967	Post Options Post Reply Quote Martin&Rene Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 April 2021 at 20:19
	I think the self tacker is great, but you have to do something (barber haulers?) to make it work well downwind. For me, it has been quite easy, https://www.myhanse.com/controlling-the-jib-downwind_topic10476_post88083.html?KW=jib#88083 Unfortunately for you guys, it may need a bit more planning, but the result is worth it.
	Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland

CharlieHCAN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 28 January 2021 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 25	Post Options Post Reply Quote CharlieHCAN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 September 2021 at 02:57
	Well to add to this thread good information from the others that commented - I would love a bit more feedback from any other 470 Owners as I just finished a regatta with ours and I was struggling in the lighter air with the self tacking jib - that said I called my North Sails rep and asked to review options for an overlapping. So in reading this I see that it sounds like the max we can fit is a 105% (my boat came with the jib tracks already on the boat) - it seems as though the consensus is that you get better drive with the added sf of sail area and punch I'm sure through the waves. We have light winds on average in Vancouver and the surrounding areas so I feel that I need more power in the lighter air - anyone have further insights on the 105% ? The next add to the boat will then be a Code 0 that I believe will be a game changer for reaching and running in a race and cruising. Thanks
	Charlie 2012 Hanse 470 - "Good Humour"

Fendant Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 03 November 2012 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 1671	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fendant Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 September 2021 at 08:26
	Charlie, we love the self-tacker, but you need at least 8 kn of wind. We have added a furling Gennaker for light winds and feel that this is the right combination. Fair winds
	Frank



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