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Hybrid lead/ lithium install

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lide View Drop Down
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Joined: 25 January 2024
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lide Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hybrid lead/ lithium install
    Posted: 19 November 2024 at 09:41
I am planning to install a lithium bank for my service battery. Currently there are 2 AGM 150Ah each. I will be removing one AGM and will add a lithium bank in parallel with the remaining AGM.

The Lithium will be paralleled through a Bank Manager to prevent overcharging the lithium.

I'm looking for thoughts on what (if anything) I may need to change from the stock set up.

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Wayne's World View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne's World Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2024 at 19:07
Lide,

Sounds overly complicated? If the setting on your charger/inverter are set correctly there should be no over charging. If your engine alternator is suitable for the charging of lithium - again there should be no over charging. Your lithium/s should have an external or internal BMS which would be programable to stop over charging.   
Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Pacific until the end of 2026.
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Arcadia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arcadia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2024 at 20:56
FWIW, I have a “hybrid” system on my boat. Each bank is (3) lithium 230 aH in parallel with (1) 230 aH AGM on each side of the boat which can be chosen via an A/B switch. The internal lithium BMS is happy with the charging system as is the AGM. No additional switching is involved. When the lithium reaches full charge, the internal BMS’s shuts down the charge, but the AGM keeps the load on the alternator so no spikes. Also, the AGM will stay topped off by the lithiums since they float at above 13 volts. Also, if the lithiums shut down from deep discharge, the AGM will carry on so no black outs. This turned out to be a very successful drop in set up, providing 1,500 amp hrs of trouble free power for three years now.
Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588
Sag Harbor, NY
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Arcadia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arcadia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2024 at 21:45
Correction. My AGM’s are 165 aH.
Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588
Sag Harbor, NY
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Mark&Catherine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark&Catherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2024 at 13:37
There is plenty of evidence that the hybrid system works.  The only issue I have seen is the reluctance of some insurers to accept the arrangement.
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine
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32mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 32mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2024 at 14:25
If the lithiums shut down from deep discharge, wouldn’t that also mean that the AGM is also at low voltage since they are in parallel? Therefore, wouldn’t the AGM also be dead, or near dead?
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2024 at 14:46
32Mike - no, when the LiFePO4 batteries reach the low point voltage in their discharge curve, the AGM is still sitting happy at 12.8v and starts to take some of the load. Off you push the LiFePO4 battery’s BMS all the way to cut-off the AGM is still at a relatively happy point in its own discharge curve. So you get graceful failure (or handoff) and can still discharge the AGM as normal. On the other hand while the Lithium takes the load the AGM is unstressed and takes a little power to keep it full. 

Mark
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Arcadia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arcadia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2024 at 14:53
Mark, you have it exactly right. At 165 aH, the AGM can carry on fine for most loads. Of course, starting the engine or generator would be advised at that point, but no rush and no black out!
Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588
Sag Harbor, NY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 32mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2024 at 15:02
Ok, yeah, I just googled the discharge curves of the different batteries. So, basically, the lithium low voltage cutoff number is not that dead for the AGM.
I’ve heard of this kind of setup before but seem to remember that there are drawbacks to it. Just don’t remember what they are. Why do the insurance companies not like it?
Mike
S/V Dulces Sueños
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Arcadia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arcadia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2024 at 15:16
Actually, I’m not aware of any insurance issues in the USA. Does anyone have any knowledge of this ? Also, I can say with confidence that I have had absolutely no drawbacks to this set up after three years and probably 500 cycles.
Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588
Sag Harbor, NY
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