Try-sail

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   Hi All

I am considering to install a trysail on a permanent track on Uhambo. The track would be fitted on the starboard side from the deck up to 12m (approximately the second spreaders).
The idea is to get the sail ready to go with the second halyard.
Now we have a third reef on ISAF specs which still give around 25m² when taken. That's too much over 40knt TW.
I worked with Norths Sails here in Argentina and we estimated that some 15m² would be a reasonable size.

Any idea, experience picture would be appreciated.

Alain

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Alain & Anne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 13 December 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 562	Post Options Post Reply Quote Alain & Anne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Try-sail Posted: 27 May 2010 at 14:49
	Hi All I am considering to install a trysail on a permanent track on Uhambo. The track would be fitted on the starboard side from the deck up to 12m (approximately the second spreaders). The idea is to get the sail ready to go with the second halyard. Now we have a third reef on ISAF specs which still give around 25m² when taken. That's too much over 40knt TW. I worked with Norths Sails here in Argentina and we estimated that some 15m² would be a reasonable size. Any idea, experience picture would be appreciated. Alain
	UHAMBO 430e#004 White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising OCC Our blog: www.uhambo.fr

Alain & Anne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 13 December 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 562	Post Options Post Reply Quote Alain & Anne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 May 2010 at 16:44
	Since I found a previous topic ... http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2185&KW=trysail&PID=16297#16297 Would be interested on more details upon the rail, the cars; the way the rail is fitted won to the deck... Alain
	UHAMBO 430e#004 White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising OCC Our blog: www.uhambo.fr

holby Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral of the Fleet Joined: 18 February 2006 Location: Isle of Man Status: Offline Points: 2287	Post Options Post Reply Quote holby Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 May 2010 at 20:47
	Alain, Thought I would put a link here regarding storm sails, OSR Report by the RORC Rules, for the RYA, I would assume you are not interested in racing but thought you might find it interesting as the results were drawn from the reports on the problems in the 1979 Fastnet and the 1998 Sidney Hobart race, as it was found that the storm sails were to big. This report out in nov 2009 is supported by ISAF. I have read this as I have to look at storm sails for a race next year. www.isafyouthworlds.com/tools/documents/SR5c-%5B7716%5D.pdf Dave Edited by holby - 27 May 2010 at 20:47
	Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)

Alain & Anne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 13 December 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 562	Post Options Post Reply Quote Alain & Anne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 June 2010 at 12:20
	Hi Dave, Thanks for it. I used the ISAF Rules when designing the 3rd reef... which is very large for 9-10Bt. Since I had talks with Norths Sails in Buenos Aires and they are working on it. We are back home for a while and I will have more time for the forum! Alain
	UHAMBO 430e#004 White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising OCC Our blog: www.uhambo.fr

Richard108 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 02 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 263	Post Options Post Reply Quote Richard108 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 June 2010 at 06:37
	Hi Alain I would suggest you should first better define what conditions you wish to use the storm sails. Is it 40 to 50 knots down wind or are you looking for something that will take you upwind in 50 to 60 knots. North sails can do a calculation of the righting momentum for your Hanse depending on the conditions you specify and therefore help you decide on the size. Please note that when I got a required rig check for insurance purposes to sail to Vanuatu last year the rigger doing the check said that my trisail track is undersized and therefore changed it to a T track with stainless steel cars. I have updated the information I posted on http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2185&KW=trysail&PID=16297#16297 with some pictures of the T track. Traditionally a Trisail is sheeted to the leeward rail. In my experience this does not give you much ability to point upwind if needed and have used a barber to sheet the clew more centrally when wanting to point to windward. A Trisail also comes in handy when you have had a problem with your main sail or boom. I used my trisail in Vanuatu after breaking my boom in conditions that you would not normally use a trisail. Trisails that are cross cut are fine to sail downwind but do not preform well upwind. So you may wish to consider your options of improving the performance of your trisail for use other than extreme winds. In squally conditions the problem with the trisail is that it is great when you are in the squall but once through the squall you end up often under powered and wished you had a better cut and sheeted trisail. You may not be in a position to go back to sailing on the main sail due to impending squalls. Edited by Richard108 - 06 June 2010 at 08:17
	Regards Richard ("Moksha" 540 #115 delivered Sept 2007) Pittwater, Sydney, Australia

Alain & Anne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 13 December 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 562	Post Options Post Reply Quote Alain & Anne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 June 2010 at 17:16
	Hi Richard Thanks a lot for your advice. I worked with Norths Sails in Argentina. It seems that they have not such an experience with trysails as it is pretty much unusual in this part of the world. Most of the sailing boats here are the strong masts-small sails type and they can cope with 50knts and more easily than the high aspect ratio type of the Hanse. Here in France there are much more of the 3rd reef type, and as I experienced with my boat, I cannot sail upwind with more than 40knt on the 3rd reef. I agree with the T type rail. Which brand is yours? Did you move the block of the N°1 reefing line to fit the rail? Regards Alain
	UHAMBO 430e#004 White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising OCC Our blog: www.uhambo.fr

Richard108 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 02 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 263	Post Options Post Reply Quote Richard108 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 June 2010 at 10:30
	Hi Alain I think mine is Antal but I can not find it on their website. I am checking on which brand it was. You might be better to speak to North sails France about sizing and getting them to do a righting momentum calculation and then decide on the sail size depending on what conditions you specify. Yes we moved the No 1 reef line to fit the rail and also to reduce chaff. I am unsure if you have seem Mikes comments on http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2185&KW=Hobart+trysail&PN=2 about some of the benefits of using a trisail instead of a 3rd reef.
	Regards Richard ("Moksha" 540 #115 delivered Sept 2007) Pittwater, Sydney, Australia

Richard108 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 02 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 263	Post Options Post Reply Quote Richard108 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 June 2010 at 01:42
	Hi Alain The T track and stainless steel cars I used on my 540 is made by Ronstan. See http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2185&PID=32494#32494 for some photos, part numbers and web links. Hope this helps.
	Regards Richard ("Moksha" 540 #115 delivered Sept 2007) Pittwater, Sydney, Australia



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