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588 as a world cruiser

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HaddockFS View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 August 2020 at 14:12
Hi All,

I found this forum and must confess that I am not currently a Hanse owner.

I am looking very seriously at a Hanse 588 and wanted to get some feedback from owners about real life living with the boat and not just the sales blurb. My intentions are to campaign the boat in the Med for a couple of years and then venture further afield possibly a circumnavigation. There will be just my wife and I sailing her.

My questions is to owners of 575 and 588 as to the suitability of this boat for the latter ambition. 

The boat I am looking at has a high spec (electric furlers, winches etc etc) which is both a good thing and a bad thing in terms of failure in far flung corners of the globe. How have you found the robustness of these type of features? How does she handle in gale? What support do Hanse offer globally and is the boat suited for ocean sailing or more designed coastal hoping? Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

An honest opinion from owners and not the broker would be appreciated and if anyone has done a circumnavigation.

Thanks


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2020 at 16:12
I am not a round-the-world sailor.   Just a coastal cruiser who has done occasional offshore. There are many, though, who do world cruising with 575 and 588s.     Wayne and others can give you their personal experiences.    My own impression is that HANSE 575 and 588 are well built boats, but built to a price point.   There are things that I have done to my boat that I consider necessary for offshore cruising and improved safety.  

1.   Seacocks - I'm not a fan of the HANSE seacock model.   They have a simple ball valve on top of a composite/plastic thru-hull which can snap if enough torque is applied.   Its technically ABYC and CE compliant, but I feel much more confident in simple, bronze, 1 piece, seacocks.

2.   monitoring/solar - I don't know how well the CZONE stuff works,  but if its a boat which does not have it,  you need monitoring for batteries, solar panels, tanks, etc..  The 2 line display at the top of the WURTH panel is useless.  

3.   sail handling - the mainsail is big, and although the headsail self tacks,  having a strong, full battened, offshore capable mainsail seems important to me.    We have a roller furling boom and it makes things much easier.   The normal "stack pack" boom and sail combination would require a lot of effort to handle in rough weather or just normal stowing. 

4.   thruster door security - there are lanyards on the thruster doors that you need to secure for offshore sailing.     Coming down on a wave hard could pop the door open and you can lose the door.  A couple have experienced this.   It needs to be secured as soon as offshore.

5.   Bilge pumps - I upgraded the bilge pumps from the smaller Hanse provided sizes to something larger and more capable.  for both mast bilge and main bilge.

The boat sails well,  and I find it handles OK in rough weather.     You will need to decide on deep or shoal keels, and sail handling, but the comments above are not really big issues.  Just things I feel I would do before going offshore for an extended period.

Regarding the reliability of features,    I've not found things like electric winches or furling booms to be an issue.    Any reliability issue tends to be on the following:

1.   Standard things like fresh water pumps or grey water pumps. Bilge pump switches, etc.  These are easy to replace by the owner and stock as spares.    I keep 2 spares for each.

2.   The stern remotes tended to be junk and I ended up replacing my setup to something with multiple copies and a better range

3.   Fuses tend to be something you need to stock up on.   I was used to breakers and not fuses on my last boat,  but Hanse likes fuses.    I got "glow when blown" fuses and this makes things a lot easier.




Edited by Black Diamond - 05 August 2020 at 18:45
Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne's World Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2020 at 20:34
Haddock,

We have had a 575 for just over 6 years and have traveled about 25,000 nm in her from the Baltic (summer), Atlantic coast, the Med as far east as Turkey and then across Atlantic and now in the Caribbean. We intend to take here back to Australia over the next 4-5 years. 

So generally -

The Hanse 575 and 588 are production boats and aimed at the largest market - charter and recreational users. This is virtually the same with all production built boats. They are built to a price and that inherently means their build may not be compatible with the harshest offshore use. Again the same goes for probably 98% of boat sold currently. There are heavier designs which provide more comfort in strong offshore conditions- but be prepared to pay 4-5 times the price. There will be systems that could be better, using better equipment but again it is a price thing. So people chose to change some of this equipment whilst others ignore these things.

There is a huge choice of options on Hanse boats in general and more the bigger the boat- depends on the depth of your pockets- I would love to have Rick's furling boom for his main sail but it wasn't an option when we bought our boat. 

There are always modifications which can or should be made for long distance cruising but again these changes or additions need to be made to all boats - eg good- stable downwind sails, perventers, chaffe protection, spares. Knowledge of your boat and its' systems, preventative maintenance and monitoring for equipment for fault and wear comes with use and experience on your boat. 

From our perspective the 575 offers what we wanted in a yacht - space, comfort 99.5+% of the time*, features, good looks and at a reasonable price. * to explain - we use our boat 24/7/365 but 94% of the time our boat is in an anchorage or marina,then at least 5.5% of the time we are sailing and the weather is probably good. That leaves somewhere below .5% when you are at sea and it is rough and could be uncomfortable. The 94% is based on us travelling normally 4,000nm per year which gives about 550 hours of travelling and 8210 hours at anchor or in a marina etc. You get the idea. Given reasonable care, good preparation, good maintenance, good weather routing and reasonably conservative sailing most production boats could circumnavigate the "right" way. Certainly there are lots (hundreds) of boats which cross the Atlantic and go back to Europe each year and most are not heavy weather boats - mostly production boats of all types and sizes and good on them for doing it. 

Regarding equipment on Hanses - most of the brands used are the same on most boats so there is often no difference. Good installation of equipment makes a big difference and I think now Hanse are doing a good job compared to other production builders. I have seen and have friends with expensive boats like Oysters who have had more problems with equipment installations than I know of with Hanse. There are lots of systems onboard modern, larger yachts and getting repairs, service or replacements in remote areas in always going to a issue regardless of what brand you buy.

Now more specifically - the 575 verses the 588. Whilst I have not had an in-depth look at the 588 there are obvious differences - some good and some not so good for a liveaboard yacht - IMHO. The good things I note on the 588 is the aft deck storage lockers, the control binnacles at the steering wheels are a better size (larger) and more sloped which is better, the changes to the aft port cabin to make more and better use of space is also good. The not so good, in my opinion, for cruising is the changes made to the saloon and galley - I thought the 575 long galley is better and more usable, the 588 has more lounges - which is great for a charter group of 8 but not for a cruising couple with an occasional 2 extra friends onboard, the small and aft facing 588 Nav station is a giant step backwards. Our 575 long , spacious nav station is our office and works well (and is facing the right way). So from my perspective the 588 has gone more "charter" and less cruiser. The hardtop on the 588 is not a bad idea it just looks crappy and does not blend with the rest of the boat design - again IMHO. 

Lastly the support for your boat comes from your Hanse dealer not Hanse direct. So this means you need a dealer who is very good and if you have that you will be in good shape. Our Dealer who looked after our warranty and after warranty requirements is Inspiration Marine UK. They did a great job for us during warranty and continue to assist even after 6 years. Speaking to owners of various other brands warranty can be OK or in a surprising number of cases non-existent.

So, can you sail a 575 or 588 around the world -sure why not. 
          
Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Pacific until the end of 2026.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2020 at 23:10
Agree with all Wayne's points.     

A couple of clarifications - the Leisurefurl boom we did after we took delivery of the boat.    The HANSE option was 3 times the price of the Leisurefurl boom so we took delivery with a standard boom and simply threw it out afterwards.   Salvaged the blocks and the line, though.

I went to the factory in Griefswald twice.   Once when looking at boats, and once when our boat was being finished.    I went to the HYLAS factory in Taiwan when our Hylas 49 was being built and to the Island Packet factory in Florida when our IP-45 was being built.    The manufacturing process is far better engineered at HANSE than any of the others.    The HYLAS had artisans doing its woodwork, whereas the HANSE has a more engineered and well executed process with laser cut cabinetry and good installation.   No two Hylas are the same, but Hanse can have hulls built in one place and cabinetry cut well in advance of the hull arrival and it all comes together very nicely.  Go look at a Jeanneau or Dufour if you want to see the difference between Hanse execution and what I call IKEA execution.   There are a few areas (listed in the prior note) I wish they did differently, but I said the same thing about my Hylas.

I echo Wayne's comment on Nav station and galley.    I did not like the 588 salon.   It was a bit too modern for my traditionalist tastes.   I liked the big nav station on the 575 and the long galley.  When at the factory,  Henry told me that they could create a 588 with the 575 nav station and galley, but I don't know if that is for extra cost or not.   I would not pay extra.

I don't find the 575 pods a problem,  but you do usually have to stand to see the B&G displays.  Not a big deal, but I have to believe that's a point of negotiation (getting different pods). 

I personally don't like the 588 dinghy garage.   You have no additional room and its meant for a tiny dinghy.    In my 575 garage I have a full size dinghy,  2 5 gallon diesel jugs,  1 5 gallon gas jug,  all my cleaning supplies,  and more.     The aft cabin on the 588 is bigger to be sure,  but it depends upon how many people you are cruising with as to whether you will care about that.   For chartering, maybe it matters.  For a couple sailing around the world and having company for a weekend or two every so often,  I doubt it.

Big boats have complex systems, complex wiring, complex plumbing, etc.   You need to be prepared for this.    After a couple of years,  I feel I am finally capable of fixing or replacing the most common things. 

My US$0.02



Edited by Black Diamond - 06 August 2020 at 23:12
Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HaddockFS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2020 at 09:55
Thanks Wayne and Rick,

Most useful. It is sort of the conclusion I had come to but what is interesting is your preference for the 575 as better suited for the purpose. Indeed most of the time it will be just the two of us with occasional friends and pesky kids visiting for holidays. Will look at the used 575s and see what's available. I do like the idea of boom furling. Keeps the weight low and easy to reef. Did you keep the sail or have to order a new one? Once I take delivery there will be a number of changes I will make such as sea cocks  and other monitoring equipment (if not fitted). Big fan of solar (have lots on current boat) and the hard binimi on the 588 lends itself to putting down a lot of panels. However, a good arch behind the boat achieves the same (as per current boat). Has the draft ever been a problem, limiting access to anchorages?

Sounds like you agree with my view that the Hanse is a cut above the other production boats be it marginal.

Thanks again.

Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2020 at 11:52
Keep in mind that we are both 575 owners.  We are biased. :-).   Its the same hull,  with 95% of the same equipment, so its going to be pretty much the same handling offshore.   

On boom furling,  beyond the reasons you mentioned, is the topic of full battens.    Full battens will easily give you twice the life out of your mainsail.  They are expensive and if its not flogging, its staying in good shape.    Roller furling masts let the sail flog.

There are a couple of things on the 588 I like.   The solent rig gives you sail options,  but you can just as easily set up a code zero forward.    I wish I had a stemhead fitting that supported two anchors but I've found that's a once in 5 years problem (putting out two anchors).   I carry a disassembled fortress in the sail locker forward should I ever need.

We built out 575 new in 2017, so I had to play general contractor between Elvstrom in Denmark, Hanse in Germany and Leisurefurl in California.   We had our sails (Elvstrom membrane EPEX) made for the boom.  Once you and Leisurefurl select the boom,  you send a "sailmakers kit" to the sailmaker who uses it for cutting and finishing the sail.  As Hanse did not do Leisurefurl,  but offered a much more expensive Furlboom option, we kind of owned making sure it happened right.    We also had it painted (AWLGRIP) in Bristol, RI as I didn't like the way Hanse painted the boat (white stern,  no paint on bulwarks, etc.).  My thinking was that I was spending that much,  I might as well get it the way we wanted.

I'm not sure that the bimini top on the 588 lends itself to standard solar panel sizes.    You could probably get 700 watts up there easily, but you can order flexible panels that would fit exactly the available space and get more power generated.   Depends upon what you need.

I don't think its a marginal difference between Hanse and other production boats.   I think its significant.   They produce in volume, but the Moody comes off the same line as the Hanse.   I've seen how others build and where its different,  its usually better.   The main difference I see is that a Passport, Hylas or Oyster would have 1-2 areas where the mechanicals might be better, but the big difference is that you have a hand-crafted, artisan produced, custom interior.   With HANSE you select options for the interior.  Its good quality, but its not "art"... 

If you want to see our 575,  use this link.. maybe you can get some ideas on things you like/dislike

FWIW and Good luck!



Edited by Black Diamond - 07 August 2020 at 11:57
Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2020 at 09:53
Hi Black diamond, which bilge pump did you choose? Necessary to upgrade fuses? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2020 at 10:01
One minor comment /question. I am preparing a solar installation on the t-top of the 588 by solbian - and It seems 780W peak power is possible, and more can be put on the deck above the galley. In your experience, are 780W good enough for bluewater sailing or it is worth to get more? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2020 at 12:48
I chose the manual RULE 2500 and moved the 1000 from the main bilge to the mast bilge.    I did not have to change fuses.      The only difference is that the boat behind me said it looked like rocket thrust coming out of the stern.   :-)

The one thing I have noticed is that the 588 and 575 (same hull) have flat bilges and you can carry quite a bit of water in the bilge without the pump clicking on.    Not much you can do about it, but don't be surprised if the pump clicks on,  runs for a bit,  shuts down and then comes back on once the water from the other bilge areas drains into the main bilge.  Ours seems to be a pretty dry boat so far.


Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2020 at 12:55
On the 780W,   that should give you (depending upon smart controllers) between 30 and 50amps going into the batteries on a good day.   I have 700 watts on the bimini for our 575 and that normally will charge the batteries from an 80% SOC to 100% in about 3 hours.    We have the usual battery needs with 2 refrigerators, one freezer,   laptops charging,  B&G electronics, etc..etc.     Not doing anything like trying to power air conditioning or dishawashers.    If you have a DC watermaker you would need to add this load in.    Ours is AC.  

A friend just put flexible solar panels on top of the deck halyard and sheet tunnel on both sides.  Apparenty this was able to add another 300watts of solar.  Its custom cut to fit, but high quality stuff and seems to do the job.    

I would look hard at being able to upgrade the panels in place in a few years.   How possible is this?   In other words,  today's 165W panel might be 250W in 5 years for the same bimini footprint.    Can you easily accommodate this kind of upgrade?   This stuff is becoming a commodity and prices are dropping quite a bit. 




Edited by Black Diamond - 31 August 2020 at 00:44
Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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