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Engine room ventilation

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surfjoan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote surfjoan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Engine room ventilation
    Posted: 08 September 2021 at 14:44
Has anyone added forced ventilation by fan for the engine room? it gets really hot and it has been worse since I installed Lifepo4 batteries which makes the alternator work more. The engine room is very small and there is not much place for the tubing needed. I am interested to see if anyone succeeded doing this?
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surfjoan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote surfjoan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2021 at 10:22
wow, 11689 views and no reply.. must be a HOT topic ;) .. i am still thinking about how to install the pipes. The engine room is so small so it will be tricky to find place for both a fan and two pipes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gunnar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2021 at 11:33
An interesting question, I've also considered this. I've not done any serious attempt yet since the temperature seems to be acceptable so far, but I'm also thinking of a Lithium upgrade, possibly forcing me to do something. Maybe it could be possible to suck air from below the floorboards, then you only have to get rid of the hot air through a single tube which I guess must go to the aft compartment and then exit to the outside.
By the way, it would be very interesting if you would share some of your experience with the Lithium upgrade, that's a *hot* topic! ;-)
Hanse 342 #350 "Lathans" - Horten, Norway
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iemand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iemand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2021 at 11:42
On our Hanse 370 we have a vent in the engine room which is pushing the hot air to the stern when the engine is running. It is I think 75mm cheapest flexible piping. Don't take one of these inline blowers since they will get noisy. A radial vent is perfect for that, just as high as possible mounted.

With the underpreassuer you will have colder air blowing in from wherever....

BR Thomas
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007
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Martin&Rene View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martin&Rene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 September 2021 at 16:28

I have not looked fully into the use of Lithium batteries, so apologies if some of my comments are not completely applicable to your situation, but I am just concerned you may be over-complicating the issue.  Whilst the acceptance charge rate for the Lithium batteries can be high, the actual charge rate will be determined by the alternator and the alternator regulator.  Are you changing these as well?  My understanding of the conventional alternator regulator is that it is acting like the floating ball valve that controls the filling of a water tank.  As the water level rises (Battery voltage increases) then the water flow reduces (alternator power output drops).  So, the alternator is only working at full power for a short period of time. 

It is for this reason that I installed a Sterling alternator to battery regulator, as this places a load on the alternator so that it works at maximum power output until the batteries are almost fully charged.  As a recognition that the alternator is running at full load for long periods, the Sterling system includes a temperature sensor that is mounted on the back of the alternator, so that if the alternator gets too hot, then the boost effect is turned off and the alternator should cool down as it is outputting at a lower rate.

The system had worked well for 6 years, but on this year’s long trip, the Sterling unit was showing that the alternator temperature was too high, and the unit had switched off the boost function.  I had the batteries and the alternator checked out and these were shown to be ok.  When I re-installed the alternator, I doubled my puny efforts in getting the belt tight.  We have done a couple of short trips since then, where we have anchored overnight and used the engine at some point during the next day and everything has seemed ok.  The only change we can see is that at the beginning of the season I had fitted a new Gates belt on the alternator.  I have now read that Nigel Calder says that you will probably need to re-tension a belt during its first 100 hrs of usage, so the present thought is that the belt had been slipping and generating heat.  I have since checked (using a infra-red thermometer) the temperatures when the engine is running and the alternator is on full output and the engine, pulleys and alternator are all running in the temperature range 50-60oC.

We have become friendly, with the owners of a Hanse 345, which does have a fan on the engine unit.  A benefit of this is that there is a small flow of warm air past the helmsperson’s feet (useful in Scotland).  My impression is that the amount of heat being extracted by the fan is only a small fraction of that being extracted by the cooling water system.  Perhaps the chief benefit of the fan is that is stops any hot engine fumes entering in the back cabins.

So, hence my thought “Do you actually need to modify anything?”


Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 September 2021 at 21:09
I agree that the standard ventilation (on my 385 and 458) is useful to reduce engine fumes.  I had this issue on my pre-Hanse Beneteau and fitted an engine room extractor fan to resolve this.
The foot warming side benefit isn't required in the Med!
H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising
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surfjoan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote surfjoan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2021 at 08:55
Thanks for the replies. The engine room on the 341 is so small and my alternator (or maybe the belt?) has started to smell a little. Like hot rubber or burnt electronics. I know it sounds bad but if i remove one of the engine room hatches it gets a lot better. Thats why i plan to install ventilation. And i have measured the engine room temp once and it was 65 degrees which is a lot more then the recommended outside temperatur +20-30 degrees.

about the lifepo4 installation i installed everything needed in the battery compartment. The 2 old house batteries was replaced by 4 280 ah EVE cells which i bought from a trusted supplier at Alibaba. I also installed a REC bms and 2 relays for low volt and high volt cutoffs. The rec bms is a really good bms but my install got complicated and today i probably would have selected the swedish HLP Data BMS4S which has everything needed but looks more simple to install
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2021 at 12:25
Originally posted by surfjoan surfjoan wrote:

(or maybe the belt?) has started to smell a little. Like hot rubber or burnt electronics.

The standard belt it not uo to the task in your new lifepo4 setup!
These belts max out already from 60-90°c.

If you have a 3ym30 yanmar I found a better belt. If you got a different engine your should try and find a xpa belt.

/H8jer


Edited by H8jer - 28 September 2021 at 12:27
Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin
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Martin&Rene View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martin&Rene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2021 at 13:49
The first task is change the belts.  On the recommendation of various "experts" on the cruiser forums, I have switched to a Gates belt.  This is where I purchased the long life version. 


I have the part number on the yacht and I hoped I would be able to give it to you next week, but the weather is not too promising at the moment for a visit (400km to the yacht).  My experience is the same as H8jer in that slipping belts generate heat.  As I am not very strong, I have to work really hard to get sufficient belt tension. 

Since the water cooled diesel engine has a temperature of around 55 deg C, I doubt you can drop the temperature much, unless you install a really large fan.  Think of the size of the fan on your car.

If you do go ahead, I would also look at the inlet side as well.  On my yacht the air to the engine comes from;
An inlet in the starboard cabin.  Not ideal, as we sail with that door shut, as otherwise the cooker hits it.
An inlet in the lounge.
The gaps around the access hatches, which is why I chose not to put draft excluder foam on to stop them vibrating.
I have though of putting another inlet in the port cabin, but have never got round to it. 

It would be interesting to hear of the charge rate you achieve for batteries that have been under load for a couple of days with no charging, as it is regularly commented that the internal regulators on Hitachi alternators are not very efficient.  My AGM  batteries are ok at the moment, but it interesting to keep track of new developments

The Sterling Alternator to Battery charger has a specific setting for charging Lithium batteries and claims to increase the charging rate.


I made a few mistakes when installing mine, so did I write up to help others.


Keep us informed of how you go on, as it is good to hear of peoples' solutions as well as their problems


 
Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland
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H8jer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2021 at 18:16
Hi Martin&Rene

Lots of information in your post! Thanks.

I also has the Sterling Alternator to Battery charger which is part of the problem. My alternator is 80amps and I pull 70+ amps due to the Sterling AB120.
If I shut off the Sterling the charge is below 20 amps. 25% is what all your Hanse sailors get from your stock regulated alternator!!!

Gates belt or not? Gates belts are not in epdm rubber so the temp range is very limited. Please look through my post in the 370 section.




Edited by H8jer - 29 September 2021 at 18:17
Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin
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