standing rigging

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    Hello, Who has some serious thougts about the standing rigging. I own a 341 with a sparcraft ocean mast and when pulling the backstay hard the mast bend a lot. Sometimes I need to pull hard on the backstay to have a straight "headsail" rig. 
I know that you can decrease the amount of bent in the mast by using so called running backstays. If you give this running backstays a little pull the mast will straighten a little bit and therefore the "headsail" rig will straighten. Who can give advise?
Frank

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Eternal Flame Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 15 December 2003 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 253	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eternal Flame Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: standing rigging Posted: 29 April 2004 at 08:17
	Hello, Who has some serious thougts about the standing rigging. I own a 341 with a sparcraft ocean mast and when pulling the backstay hard the mast bend a lot. Sometimes I need to pull hard on the backstay to have a straight "headsail" rig. I know that you can decrease the amount of bent in the mast by using so called running backstays. If you give this running backstays a little pull the mast will straighten a little bit and therefore the "headsail" rig will straighten. Who can give advise? Frank

Amica Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Sub Lieutenant Joined: 13 April 2004 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote Amica Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 April 2004 at 10:35
	Hi Frank The problem with the loose forestay on Hanse 341 can be compentated by increasing tension on the upper an intermediate shrouds. The 341 need alot of tension on the upper shrouds. When trimming theese shrouds, I usually pull the backstay fairly hard, using the winch. This allows you to increase tension on the shrouds. Please be carefull when doing this. Afterwards, release the backstay again. Adjust the sideward mast bend with the intermediate and the lowers. The result is increased tension on the forestay, and a better upwind performance. However you will always need to put tension on the backstay when sailing upwind in good breezes. I would NEVER consider mounting running backstays on a Hanse 341. For two reasons: 1) The angle and length of the spreaders does the work of runnning back stays. 2) The ease of sailing decreases. Best Regards Simon

Eternal Flame Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 15 December 2003 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 253	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eternal Flame Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 April 2004 at 14:23
	Hi Simon, Thank you for your quick reply. Indeed you need a lot of tension on the upper shrouds (I believe aprox. 20% of the braking strenght) and therefore you need to pull your backstay really hard (also to its max of 20% breakingstrenght). But if this is done (and I personally think that the forestay is still a little lose and when sailing upwind with waves the mast is moving for and aft) should it be okee than? Or am I just over concerned?? Or must I get used to the little movement for and aft. Sidewards it stands staight up so far as I can see and I think that is hard to see when heeling at an angle of 15 degree. Otherwise could it be solved with only checkstays to control the shaping of the mast Thanks, Frank

franko Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 24 June 2004 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 597	Post Options Post Reply Quote franko Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 June 2004 at 15:00
	Interested to read opinions on rig tension on the 341. I recently stepped my mast for the season and found that with little or no back-stay tension the mast top has a distinct forward bias above the upper spreaders. My thoughts are that rather than a loose fore-stay my boat has been set up at the yard with too short/tight a forestay. I also 'suffer' an unnerving amount of fore/aft movement when the boat is pitching. Anyone know what the correct length of the forestay should be? Cheers

Eternal Flame Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 15 December 2003 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 253	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eternal Flame Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 June 2004 at 09:46
	Hi Franko, Well I do know that you really have to have lot of tension on the upper shrouds. Maybe you had not enough tension and therefore your mast will tip forward. Without backtsay your mast has to bend afterwards a little? My rig is tunned hard and fore/aft movement when the boat is pitching is indeed still there. I do not look at the mast anymore... it seems to be usual so..... Frank

franko Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 24 June 2004 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 597	Post Options Post Reply Quote franko Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 June 2004 at 13:15
	Eternal Flame wrote ... "I do not look at the mast anymore" Good idea Frank, I must stop looking too. However, I have just returned from sailing round The World yesterday on my way to watch the Danmark vs Czech' game and met a surveyor friend in the harbour. I got the following advice from him re the standing rigging. The forward bias is bad, too much back-stay tension he didn't recommend on the Hanses ( He has a 411 himself and has, in the past, worked at the yard in Griefswald ). The 'pumping' when pitching is bad and possibly dangerous. The mast could break !!! I'm still looking with one eye ;-) As you say, you need a lot of upper shroud tension. I thought I started with enough but I will try again from scratch. He said so:- Everything else loose, tension the uppers until you see a distinct bend in the mast. Correct this by means of the intermediates and then the lowers in turn. You should end up with a little aft bias at the mast head. He DID NOT recommend tensioning the backstay at any stage of the process. What I have ended up with is a result of over-tensioning the lowers at sea. I was advised by another friend to tension the leeward lowers if they appeared a little slack while sailing. Surveyor friend said not to worry unduly about this apparent slackness. Any comments on this? Cheers Franko p.s. See "The World" here: http://www.residensea.com/

Cutty Stark Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Commander Joined: 10 February 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 50	Post Options Post Reply Quote Cutty Stark Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 July 2004 at 13:52
	Interesting to hear your problems. I have a 300 I have the whole rig set up very tight. This not only reduces stress as there is no movement and therefore no sudden extra forces but it also helps racing performance. Most cruising sailors think that slack rigging is kind to the boat, it is not ! When going upwind I bang on lots of backstay, this puts a large amount of pre-bend into the rig, tentions the forestay and lets the top of the mainsail fall off reducing heeling moment....who wants to heel over and go sideways......I dont !! Good luck from "Cutty Stark"



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