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Rust/weeping on 400e keel |
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Dan-
Sub Lieutenant Joined: 15 March 2021 Location: RI Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 17:25 |
Hi,
I have a 400e whose keel has developed some rust and a crack where the lead portion meets the steel portion. Also note some rust at the hull-keel joint. Is the fix just a matter of using a wire brush, some kind of anti-corrosive, and some epoxy, or do I need to plan for shot blasting, re-fairing, and a few months out of the water? Pics below. Starboard Port Leading Edge Trailing Edge |
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Rock
Captain Joined: 19 September 2014 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 349 |
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This is not dramatic to me.
Seen boats with way worse. Cast iron simply rusts. you van fix with a wire brush and epoxy, but will likely see some again next year, Best is to sand/grid blast and immeately epoxy, before flash rust takes hold. Mine has shallow keel, less cast iron, more lead, relatively See a blister here and there, open them op, wire brush over it, anti fouling on it and in the water she goes again. Best regards, Peter |
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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241
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Captain Cook
Admiral Joined: 23 May 2006 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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Hi Dan - and welcome to the forum A few informations about your boat, like model year and number, how long you have owned her, the interval between renewal of the bottom paint and so on ................. - would be nice. Try Search->Advanced search->All forums->Any Date and "Keel" or "Keel Damage", and you will find a lot of previous posts. The big craters with rust in the cast iron surely haven't developed after one year in the water? If so, there must be a fault in the moulding. I remember a post in myhanse where an owner had to replace the lead part of the keel, because the moulding at the top of the lead was filled with debris. Find his story via the search function. In my opinion, the worst damage is the crack where cast iron and lead are connected. It seems that the lead part can move just a little bit, and this can result in metal fatigue in the bolts. Do also read the post about the serious problem if seawater is trapped in an oxygen-deprived environment. https://www.myhanse.com/damaged-keel_topic12359_page1.html?KW=keel Be sure, that any repair (like an angle-grinder removing rust in the iron/lead connection) will ensure, that the lead part of the keel is rock steady. : Kjeld P.S.: The bolts at the top are not like on my H400. I have 6 M42 bolts, 4 in a quadrant, and 2 in line. Edited by Captain Cook - 21 March 2021 at 18:53 |
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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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Dan-
Sub Lieutenant Joined: 15 March 2021 Location: RI Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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I'm the third owner and have had her for a year. We replaced the rudder with a Jefa and have thoroughly enjoyed how stiff the boat is, how well she sails, and how pleasant her motion is.
The broker had had the bottom anti-fouled last January-ish, but he admitted it was the cheapest he could find. None of the damage to the keel in the photos was evident then, but it appears there was an extra thick coat of anti-foul at the separation line. The surveyor (I found the best respected in the region) said that he suspected the fairing had come loose on the keel but noted no reason to be concerned as true damage would be spectacular and obvious.
Edited by Dan- - 17 March 2021 at 20:04 |
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Captain Cook
Admiral Joined: 23 May 2006 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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I have had a littlte rust on the cast iron too, and just cleaned off the rust and applied some Hammerite anti-rust paint. In your case, a bit of filler afterwards also will be needed. Regarding the connection between cast iron and lead, I would email the photos of the crack to the surveyor, and ask if it will be okay to clean the crack with an angle-grinder with a thin disk, and then apply "filler with high compressive strenght" in the connection. When the boat is heeling, there is a substantial force trying to widen the crack. (And trying to induce metal-fatigue in the keel bolts). Edited by Captain Cook - 16 March 2021 at 20:33 |
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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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Dan-
Sub Lieutenant Joined: 15 March 2021 Location: RI Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Thank you for the advice. I will contact him and see what he says. This forum is great!
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Captain Cook
Admiral Joined: 23 May 2006 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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You should read the posts here at myhanse about grounding. The fact that the crack in your keel is wider in the front of the keel, could be because it suffered an impact from grounding. If no repair is made in the bottom front of the keel, it still could have happened, since a grounding in a sandy bottom leaves little damage. It will be wise to check for hairline cracks in the fibreglass around the keel bolts inside the boat. I own a H400 myself, and the fastening of the keel to the bottom is very sturdy. Also the keel bolts are in a reassuring size. If you ever have seen the size of the keel bolts on a (insert name of a cheaper German yacht), you know what I am talking about. Edited by Captain Cook - 16 March 2021 at 17:36 |
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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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Borjebus
Commander Joined: 29 January 2013 Location: Sweden W Status: Offline Points: 111 |
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One of the posts Captain Cook refers to is mine: "Bad keel material". There you can see a picture of what might hide behind the "tears".
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BÄSK, Hanse 370e #82 from 2006, Yanmar 3JH4E/SD50, 3-blade Flexofold, RMC(Lewmar) 185 Bowthruster, Vulcan 9, Simrad+B&G instruments
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Mark_J1
Rear Admiral Joined: 12 March 2013 Location: Dover&Medway UK Status: Offline Points: 526 |
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You’ll find there’s a significant amount of fibreglass and fairing compound on the face of the keel and around the bulb to cast iron join. Think it’s about 25-50mm thick there. If you are seeing rust then water is getting behind the fibreglass at that point and it’s likely the adhesion between the cast iron and the fibreglass & resin has gone. So you are seeing the symptoms of the bigger problem. Eventually the fibreglass will come away. This is not the same as small breakouts of rust at the top of the keel where the cast iron edge is less protected.
Good news is that it’s not a heavy structural repair (though advice about the bulb bolts above is a worthwhile check). Just cut back, let it dry, treat the iron, re-fibreglass, fair and epoxy. On ours, the start of the issue was a lobster pot that thumped into the keel when we caught it’s line. Noticed it at next haul out. It was a 9 inch band of repair work but easy to do. I got in a good professional I know as getting resin to adhere correctly is a bit of a black art and just played helper for this job. Note even on an ‘epoxy’ hull boat the keel is covered in polyester resin! Hanse marketing never mentioned that :-) Inspiration Marine also deserve a big thank you for remote advice and support to confirm the repair plan logic. Mark |
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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31
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