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steering system changes

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JonB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2023 at 20:55
Suggest you convert to a twin rudder system that way you might, might, just have a second rudder available to actually steer if you can turn it.

If they ram the rudder then the stock will be bent and no matter what system you have you'll not be able to turn it.

Suggest you buy a submarine.
Jon B
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http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk
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psousa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote psousa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2023 at 14:37
Originally posted by johnyred johnyred wrote:

Can you please specify what model boat/steering system you talk about.
For at least a decade HANSE is using JEFA steering systems. They have a combination of wire-chains to transfer the wheel motion to rudder. But auto pilot is connected independently and directly on the rudder quadrant.

Speaking about JEFA, even if you have the spare parts, I think it would be extremely difficult to replace wire/chain while sailing. Better if you replace them as preventive maintenance. The problems come from corrosion and not from strength.

If you are looking for back up auto pilot HANSE is using JEFA DD1 motor (from 30' to 50'). Consider a under deck installation.

If you are looking for rudder back up you could consider WINDVANE HYDROVANE etc systems to be deployed after wheel rudder failures or attacks.
Cheers.





It's JEFA steering, yes.
Your autopilot drive it's possibly an hydraulic or linear unit while mine is a sprocket drive (works directly on the steering chain). If the steering linkage broke for some reason, I completely loose manoeuvrability (manual or auto). This is my current Jefa autopilot sprocket drive unit:


Wind pilot is clearly an option, if is one of those which can work as an emergency rudder. If I can recall correctly, not all can do that.


Edited by psousa - 14 December 2023 at 16:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote psousa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2023 at 16:01
Regarding orcas, I live and sail here, on one of the most affected coast lines, and I keep watching several different cases on the local boatyards. Anyway I just give it as an example as an attack don't necessarily ripoff all your rudder. They can break linkages only (then a link backup will work) when hit/ram the rudder, they can damage only a part of the rudder (you're still able to manoeuvre to shore), but yes, they can completely rip it off (you may need to use an alternative as some wrote here and is extensively described on some of the most popular books about emergencies at sea), they can slightly bent your rudder shaft (you may still use it with limited amplitude), they may completely bent it (unusable), I saw also one broken quadrant and I even saw more than one skeg rudders completely damaged (some people believes they are able to handle an attack better than the spade rudders). Last year a Beneteau Ciclades just sunk off our coast as the impact cracked the fiberglass where the rudder stock get into the boat! Regarding this one I think we're a bit safer (just a bit as no one is safe if these big animals wants to sink your boat). I was able to compare my 470 rudder stock insertion setup with the Cyclades rudder stock insertion as we were discussing this on a whatsapp group and someone have sent some pictures of the rudder stock insertion on a Cyclades and it's completely insane. It's almost transparent!

Anyway, for these or hundred of other reasons, I think it's important to discuss backup/emergency solutions.
And I reming myself about this today because, again, on a ARC crossing, another Hanse lost rudder linkage.

This year's ARC:

An heads up here to the fact that they have a steering linkage independent autopilot drive unit which allowed them to keep moving on with manoeuvrability, even with a broken steering linkage. An independent autopilot drive, connected to the quadrant or, somehow, directly to the rudder stock, was one of my solutions wrote on the first post. I still believe it's a reliable one. I may decide to install one of these drives) while I'll keep my current sprocket drive working directly on the steering chain as a backup (a spare/backup autopilot drive is always a good idea on long passages).

I keep a link to another similar situation, also on an Hanse (a 588), 2 years ago. Curiously during the ARC as well:
https://www.sail-world.com/news/244418/ARC-2021-Yacht-Charlotte-Jane-III-abandoned
This one with 2 independent steering linkages but the second one eventually failed as well, after some time.


Edited by psousa - 14 December 2023 at 16:12
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