In mast furler

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We are trying to finalise our specification for a 575 and wanted some feedback from anyone who is currently using a in mast furler on their Hanse. I think they are offering the Seldon in mast furler on the 575.  
As we will be cruising only and normally two up only we see the need for electric winches and see some benifits with an in mast furler. The main on a 575 is fairly large and would be a handful to get into the boom bag particularly as the second mate is somewhat vertically challenged (short). I understand there is a slight performance loss due to the in mast furling main shape/size and the fact that the sail does not have horizontal battens. But the easy of handling and the ease of reefing is starting to win us over. 

I know some of the performance orientated owners are going to freak out  at the mere thought of putting a in mast furler on a Hanse but for us and for our intended use it is worth while considering.  

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Wayne's World Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 18 July 2012 Location: Cruising Status: Offline Points: 1434	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wayne's World Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: In mast furler Posted: 12 April 2013 at 08:35
	We are trying to finalise our specification for a 575 and wanted some feedback from anyone who is currently using a in mast furler on their Hanse. I think they are offering the Seldon in mast furler on the 575. As we will be cruising only and normally two up only we see the need for electric winches and see some benifits with an in mast furler. The main on a 575 is fairly large and would be a handful to get into the boom bag particularly as the second mate is somewhat vertically challenged (short). I understand there is a slight performance loss due to the in mast furling main shape/size and the fact that the sail does not have horizontal battens. But the easy of handling and the ease of reefing is starting to win us over. I know some of the performance orientated owners are going to freak out at the mere thought of putting a in mast furler on a Hanse but for us and for our intended use it is worth while considering.
	Wayne W Cruising, currently in the Pacific until the end of 2026.

holby Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral of the Fleet Joined: 18 February 2006 Location: Isle of Man Status: Offline Points: 2287	Post Options Post Reply Quote holby Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 April 2013 at 09:39
	Regarding inmast furling, I would appreciate it if somebody could answer me one question. I have slab reefing on my Hanse and obviously the two other main alternatives are IN mast and IN boom furling. If when you are retreiving the sail, if it gets stuck with an IN mast furling system, how would you get it down, for example in an emergancy... I can see with in boom and slab reefeing, then it is still a question of just releasing the Halyard, but with the in mast if it is stuck half in and half out, what do you do? Dave Edited by holby - 12 April 2013 at 09:40
	Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)

superliga Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 25 April 2008 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 590	Post Options Post Reply Quote superliga Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 April 2013 at 11:01
	Holby, There is only one way, roll it all out and take it down like a normal sail. I have seen boats getting in to trouble and not mananing this task. Ending up crying "MAYDAY" on the VHF. Wayne, I would never consider it. Not just from a performance perspective but more important from a safety perspective. Get a main on Harken tracks and a V boom to drop it down in to. Nicer & safer.
	PEARL - S/Y SUPERLIGA - HANSE 470 e - Hull #168 - hanse470.com

Wayne's World Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 18 July 2012 Location: Cruising Status: Offline Points: 1434	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wayne's World Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 April 2013 at 12:00
	Dave, A good question. The in boom furlers are popular down here - Aust and NZ. Leisure Furl was developed in NZ by a family and later sold off but the family is still involved in manuafcturing specialised racing hardware aften made of titanium. But it appears in Europe the various boat manuafcturers do not like in boom furling and prefer to offer in mast. Apparently IBF causes more stress on the boom and manufacturers who previously offered IBF not only offer IMF. There are a few long term cruiser in our marina and they all say go IMF - much easier to reef sinlge handed, more reef ing options (not 2 or 3 reefs but anything from full sail to almost nothing) no need to handle the heavy sail and no sail sun damage. In our area sun damage is a real concern for the vessel and equipment and also sailors. One of these cruisers oganizes a rally to PNG for a month each year over the last 7 years. He knows his stuff - having said he sails a catamaran so maybe he cannot be relied on. I will ask how a jam is dealt with normally. Superliga, I see from the forum that various owners have had problems with the supplied main sail cars so it seems like upgrading the cars maybe a worthwhile option for a large sail if we go for the "normal" system. It is good to get feedback and views of owners. We have not made a decision on Furling or not as yet but will like to look at the equipment during a yard visit scheduled for early June. Interesting that the Aust Hanse dealer tells me about 50% of larger vessels they sell are ordered with IMF. Thanks gents.
	Wayne W Cruising, currently in the Pacific until the end of 2026.

iemand Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 13 February 2004 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1099	Post Options Post Reply Quote iemand Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 April 2013 at 12:20
	Any mainsail furling will become a No1 topic for the owner, the dealer, the sailmaker, the boatyard.... Theoretically both systems can work good. For IBF you really should have a hydraulic vang to get the boom in the correct position. Have in mind that you need a kind of sail groove extension on the back of the mast to get in line with the furling luff. Generally speaking an IMF without long battens should work fine. If you want to bring in better sailing performance the problem will start. You should also check if the mast section from Selden fits with the Boom length. Even if the standard sails would fit your personal on of sail might not (batten, material.....). Let your sailmaker call Selden in Sweden to get the proper answer on this. I would always go for normal mainsail with good sliders. I'm not shure what Hans supplies on the 575. The best system would be Harken Y-Track! PA-Boom is than perfect but also Lazyjacks will work.

High Time Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vice Admiral Joined: 04 September 2012 Location: Portsmouth UK Status: Offline Points: 819	Post Options Post Reply Quote High Time Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 April 2013 at 14:36
	I thought long and hard about this when I ordered my 415 and finally decided on in-mast. In boom was not a standard option otherwise I might have considered it. There were several reasons for choosing in-mast. The main reason, of course, is ease of handling - like you, I sail mainly 2 up and we are both retired. Apart from ease of setting and reefing, ease of stowing was high on my list. My previous boat had a centre cockpit with a high boom and the fully battened main was a real pain to stow properly. I even carried a small set of steps to enable me to reach the mast end of the stack pack when zipping up and fitting the bonnet. Although the Hanse is aft cockpit and has a lower boom it is still too high at the mast to reach comfortably (and I'm 182 cms (6 feet)). On the medium size Hanse models (385, 415) they fit a couple of mast steps as standard in the UK, recognising the problem. However, using the mast steps still doesn't make it much easier to reach the halyard and zip as you need at least one hand to hold on. It is great with the in-mast to have nothing more to do to the sail once it is all rolled away. On my old boat I used to hate the 15 minutes of hard work it took to properly pack away the main once we were safely berthed. Other reasons for the choice of in-mast you have already covered - keeps the sail clean, crease free (almost!), prevents sun damage, flexible reefing etc. My in-mast main has round vertical battens and these have worked OK to maintain a decent leech without undue flapping. I expect you do lose a small amount of performance but, like you, I am pretty much a cruiser these days, only occasionally entering 'social' races where sailing the shortest course is usually more important than the final 5% of hull speed. For me, in-mast has been the right decision, but I appreciate that it would not be first choice for many.
	Roger High Time (415 #038)

panos Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 02 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1939	Post Options Post Reply Quote panos Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 April 2013 at 23:22
	Hi, As expected I am 100% against in mast furling in general and especially in boats with non overlapping jibs like the Hanse boats. Besides being safer, easier and faster to reef slab reefing offers much greater main trimming possibilities like mast bending (backstay tensioning), boomvang trimming, and cunningham. The Hanses have a small jib and an oversized main so that mainly the power comes from the mainsail. Without good main trimming possibility the boat loses a bigger speed potential than an equally sized B boat who relay mostly in genoas. The mainsail cover problem can be partially solved by an oversized main bag and a smart zipper design. And a word of caution: if the mainsail gets torn in two halves (by chafing against the spreaders during a downwind run for example, there is no way to either furl or lower it and the situation gets fast out of hand and results a pan-pan or even a mayday condition.
	Panos Hanse 630e - selling her -

hanafe Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 17 August 2011 Status: Offline Points: 195	Post Options Post Reply Quote hanafe Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 April 2013 at 00:03
	I had an in mast furling for 10 years on my former B boat. For my Hanse I decided on the normal main and I am very happy with my decision. I would never ever go back to in mast furling for the convinience of stowing the sail on a boat with a self taking jib. You do not loose a little performance, you loose a tremendous performance. Although we only once had a problem that the sail was stuck I do not want to get in this situation again. You do not have any other possibility than tearing and pulling inward and outward until you get the sail free if you are lucky. If it is stuck you can not take down the sail any more. You are done. It is a convinience package for stowing if you sail in moderate winds. In contrary to most opinions the reefing is much more difficult as you have to be directly into the wind to properly furl it in. This results in a wild boat and boom and in waves you certainly have to switch on the engine to control the boat. With the conventional sail you sail on a 30 degress apparant wind and just fully ease the main to reef it down. You are still in full control of the boat by your jib and the boat is still sailing in a stable position through the waves. The only advantage of the in mast is that you can decide on the size of your reef. The normal one is sometimes too big or not big enough, but than no 2 is too big. HanaFe

samuel Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral of the Fleet Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2770	Post Options Post Reply Quote samuel Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 April 2013 at 06:42
	Surely in mast reefing can be a problem with the Hanse mast as it is designed to bend The furling rod will not bend so will want to "pop" out of the mast I was under the impression that one needed rigging that held the mast dead straight Ie pairs of lowers set forward & aft of the mast as often seen on masthead rigs to support the centre section Is this correct?
	Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex

superliga Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 25 April 2008 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 590	Post Options Post Reply Quote superliga Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 April 2013 at 06:47
	I do not know if I am missing something but it seems some people assumes that a main on a boom is a big hassle and I can not understand why. With Harken tracks on the main it comes down fast and hassle free - every time. It's less work than furling a main into the mast and takes about 3 seconds if I want to get it down really fast. about 30 seconds if i want to let the sail fold nicely in the zip bag. My Lazy zip bag is oversized so i just zip it when moored - no extra folding or work required. As for reefing. I just let the mail hailyard go down a bit further than the reef point. Pull the reef by hand - no winch required. Then pull the main up until the luff is tight. I have seen problems with in mast furling that I do not wish to replicate. I think it's an unsafe solution to a non existing problem ( or at least a problem you can manage by Harken tracks and a oversized zip bag). I agree with Panos about the performance issue due to the small jib and big main and it's interesting to read hanafe saying "You do not loose a little performance, you loose a tremendous performance."
	PEARL - S/Y SUPERLIGA - HANSE 470 e - Hull #168 - hanse470.com



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