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Large Headsail Options

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Commander
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Joined: 18 September 2022
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    Posted: 30 September 2022 at 22:33
Have a 348 in build. Trying to figure out what I want for lighter wind / off wind. I do NOT want a sock sail, I want something on a furler.

My dealer told me that there is not enough room for 2 furlers on the bow? I ask this because I was thinking of leaving up a reacher or maybe higher and fuller cut 150% genoa. This would be good for light wind upwind sailing and also off wind.

I do not like torsion furlers, I find them difficult to furl, but if that is my only option, I guess that is what I need. I would like to leave it up full time, so I would want a UV cover on it, and another problem with torsion furlers is that they can furl both ways (chance your cover is not on the outside).

My thinking is that once you are at 15kt true the boat does fairly well off the wind?

Would like to hear other owner's experiences.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2022 at 07:22
Most of us go with a multi-purpose asymmetric like the Elvstrom Furlstrom.  This is a lightweight spinnaker fabric and, while it can be hoisted at the dock, I would not recommend leaving it up permanently or in strong winds.  If the wind increases after we have used ours, we furl it as tight as we can to ensure that it does not flap too much.  The other issue with it being left up is the sheets interfering with the jib.
Our Facnor furler is excellent and has never given any issues.  We leave this rigged permanently with the furling drum attached to the spinnaker halyard.  
The boat starts to give good response from about 8kts true on anything other than downwind.  At 15kts there is no need for anything other than the self tacker, although we have carried our spinnaker in more than this when we'll off the wind.  Using the logic that the spinnaker is 60% larger than the main, we sometimes use it on its own when running.


Edited by S&J - 01 October 2022 at 07:24
H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising
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Matt1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2022 at 07:38
My North Sails G Zero genneker got a lot of use this summer. It’s on a top down furler which is excellent and very easy (wish the jib was that easy to furl!)

In my case I often have to rig it or take it down under way, which can be a bit “lively” when singlehanded (I’ve perfected a technique with the halliard) although it did go over the rail at night once! I won’t be doing that again!!

My last boat (30’) had a self tacker and a 105% and I would have loved that on the 418 but that’s a big headsail (with battens) to be taking down all the time and the coachroof isn’t really set up for tracks on the 418. I find the Genneker a brilliant (almost essential) “gear” to have 
Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2022 at 12:53
I can echo Matt's comments. You need a larger downwind sail for winds < 12 knots
I have my 2nd Elvström Furlstrom on a furling roller. Normally I take it down after the weekend and leave it with the furler inside the sailbag on the foredeck. I take the sheets off. You need to loosen the halyard for releasing the sheets and reattaching anyway, as the fastening point on a gennie is pretty unreachable.

Why 2nd?  Lesson learned the hardway, although we heard the wind warning over the radio, we thought that furling the sheets a few turns would be enough. It was not.Angry My wife had an easy choice for a Christmas present. 

If you want to leave it up you need another halyard for the cover of the gennie.
It is getting pretty full at the mast top with jib halyard, jib cover halyard, geniie halyard , main halyard.
You would need a cleaver solution for the gennie cover halyward and the gennie sheets.
Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2022 at 14:38
Thanks. A few more questions?

Is there room on the bow for a second furler to be left there at all times? 


I figured w the spin halyard I could leave the sail on all the time if I put a UV cover on it. Usually you can't leave top down furlers with full tension when not using them, you have to tighten halyard to use, and loosen when furled. And I realize it would have to come down if we are expecting high winds.

Definitely don't want an asymmetric. A gennaker maybe. But I still thought something that would work semi close hauled in light air. Hence my thought on 'loose' cut 150 on a foil stay.

I single hand, so looking for the most convenient option that gives me improvement off the wind and in light air. 

What is a jib cover that you need a halyard for?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2022 at 18:15
I can get pretty close to the wind upto around 8kn true. I can’t recall exactly but would guess 60 degrees? 

I only have room for two furlers on the 418, the self tacking jib plus the genneker furler 

This was the alternative I had been looking at (in the UK) before I settled on the North Sails G Zero

Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2022 at 19:04
Thanks. My dealer has suggested this sail, which actually looks pretty good. Will ask him if he could UV coat the edge.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2022 at 19:08
BTW, not to go off topic on my own thread, but the chainplate that is on the leading edge of the bow for the headstay has an eyebolt in the pictures on hanse website.

I am pretty sure this is not to pull the boat up to trailer it...nor do I believe you should hook an anchor bridle/snubber to it...Is there supposed to be for a bob stay to the spirit for tension when using a Code 0 etc? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2022 at 19:37
Interesting. Looks good. Sounds a bit like one of the sails Doyle developed for the IMOCA Hugo Boss. 

I can’t get my genneker down to 180. Deepest I can go is about 140-160 depending on conditions. 
Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2022 at 23:14
@boatman
this is the point where everyone attaches the furler
Frank
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