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Navigation instrument / autopilot fuse location?

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ohthetrees View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohthetrees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2019 at 09:50
Many thanks all! He found bad fuse on back of the DC board, and they are back in business. I really appreciate all your help. 

From my poor reading of the hanse circuit diagram of the boat, I think the fuse on the AP circuit is 15amp. I couldn't find the max draw of the DD1 unit, but I found a chart that implies it can use 13 amps maximum. Plus the 1 amp continuous to keep clutch engaged. While the H5000 pilot cpu itself can handle 30 amps, it is only being supplied by this circuit that is fused at 15 amps. So my working theory is that the draw of the DD1, plus the H500 pilot cpu itself can exceed the 15 amps of the fuse, even without malfunction in heavy weather. Basically, I think the fuse installed by Hanse is undersized for the DD1 plus H5000 AP computer. 

What do you all think of the idea of replacing with a 20a fuse? Foolhardy? Brilliant? Obviously the H5000 can handle it, so I guess it is a question of whether the wurth board and the wiring could handle 20amp. I feel strongly 15 amp is undersized for the H5000 plus DD1, but don't know wire guages, run lengths or the capability of the wurth. Does anyone with 1st hand knowledge of the 505 wiring and wurth care to chime in? 

Thanks again guys!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2019 at 11:10
I would go for the 20 Amp fuse, preferably an automatic resettable minispade one.
Frank
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mglonnro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2019 at 12:38
The cable from the DC panel is 6 mm2 according to the diagram. Would be nice to know the reasoning behind the fuse size. (We have the same DD1 drive on our boat.)
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mglonnro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2019 at 15:12
Originally posted by ohthetrees ohthetrees wrote:

Many thanks all! He found bad fuse on back of the DC board, and they are back in business. I really appreciate all your help. 

From my poor reading of the hanse circuit diagram of the boat, I think the fuse on the AP circuit is 15amp. I couldn't find the max draw of the DD1 unit, but I found a chart that implies it can use 13 amps maximum. Plus the 1 amp continuous to keep clutch engaged. While the H5000 pilot cpu itself can handle 30 amps, it is only being supplied by this circuit that is fused at 15 amps. So my working theory is that the draw of the DD1, plus the H500 pilot cpu itself can exceed the 15 amps of the fuse, even without malfunction in heavy weather. Basically, I think the fuse installed by Hanse is undersized for the DD1 plus H5000 AP computer. 

What do you all think of the idea of replacing with a 20a fuse? Foolhardy? Brilliant? Obviously the H5000 can handle it, so I guess it is a question of whether the wurth board and the wiring could handle 20amp. I feel strongly 15 amp is undersized for the H5000 plus DD1, but don't know wire guages, run lengths or the capability of the wurth. Does anyone with 1st hand knowledge of the 505 wiring and wurth care to chime in? 

Thanks again guys!!

Ok, I saw that same Jefa diagram now (attached it here also), that seems to be ending at 13A. Plus 1.4A for clutch = 14.4A. 

The H5000 gets its own power from the NMEA bus, if I understand the spec sheet correctly.

This is interesting, from the Jefa text (my bold): 

Quote The unit is much stronger than a human being and can last much longer but one should note that when the unit is operated in the red zone, something is wrong with the trim of the boats and the sails should be adjusted to achieve lower rudder torques. The above table shows that the Jefa direct drive type I will steer the yacht even in the worst possible conditions. As the drive will mostly operate in the left green zone and will not continuously rotate, the average power consumption on 12 volts is 2 amps.

One other post here (https://www.myhanse.com/jefa-direct-drive-unit_topic7527.htmlmentioned a measured power consumption of 17A (but maybe earlier generation of the DD1?), so at least when there is something wrong, it might go significantly higher than 13A? And that's when the fuse is supposed to go, as designed, I guess. 

Finally, I'm no DC electrician, but what will happen to the amps at the fuse when there is voltage drop between the fuse and the DD1? Technically more amps are needed to achieve the same work, (13A + 1.4A) * 12V?




Edited by mglonnro - 27 December 2019 at 15:13
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Arcadia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arcadia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2019 at 15:52
I’ve already replaced the 15 amp with a 20 amp. I didn’t experience a blown fuse but decided a while ago the the 15 amp is undersized. The wiring can handle it and the panel and relay can push considerably more as well. It’s a good idea. The drive motor like all motors will draw a surge when it starts or changes direction. Eventually it will exceed the average draw and blow the fuse. Other boats have experienced this. Glad you found the problem. 
Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588
Sag Harbor, NY
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ohthetrees View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohthetrees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2019 at 16:20
As a second hand Hanse owner, I’m curious, how well does Hanse tend to support owners like me? 505 #115 was built in 2015, I think commissioned in 2016 (need to double check). If I wanted to double check with Hanse about upsizing that fuse, do you think they would talk to me, even though I’m not “their” customer? What avenue do you advise I use to contact them? I must say, the response of this community is a real plus already to Hanse ownership. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arcadia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2019 at 16:38
Unfortunately Hanse will rarely communicate with owners, 1st, 2nd or otherwise! All aftersale issues are handled the dealer network and or the importer here in the states. Your best bet is to establish a relationship with a dealer as they are very experienced with the brand. Also, you should get all the documentation you can on that model. There is plenty out there, and it will help when problems arise. To your concerns about the fuse, I can assure you it is good to do. That circuit could handle up to 30 amps.
Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588
Sag Harbor, NY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohthetrees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2020 at 07:56
Sorry to say, having more AP trouble. Skipper still at sea. New set of codes.

Do you think I should post this as a new thread to get more attention, or leave it here?

 Here is latest from the skipper:

Autopilot did blow its 2nd 15a, installed 20a, It functioned good while, then stopped, returning a message "No rudder response H500-0 D" with that message quickly superseded by "No drivers available". Intend to again restore factory settings. Wind pilot is coping well, including in last night's varied conditions. After autopilot system only reset, the message returned is "no rudder data steering is unreliable". After a reset of the entire nav system, the same message. Then it goes through an auto selection process, with the same result. A damp wire in the ap detector? Another fuse? We're all good for now, but would be Grateful for ap just in case we hit that little dead spot just north of Kiritimati. If not, we'll cope. Cheers.

My feeling from 3000 miles away is that it isn't the DC panel fuse this time. Maybe another fuse, after AP computer? Cable supplying DD1 or internal to DD1? I'm wondering if the AP is drawing too much power even in normal conditions because of a fault, conditions were not too tough last night. Another possibility is the DD1 gear stripping failure happened, and it over-currents trying to move rudder? 

You guys saved the day last time. Any new advice?

Thanks!
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mglonnro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2020 at 09:58
Originally posted by ohthetrees ohthetrees wrote:

Do you think I should post this as a new thread to get more attention, or leave it here?

I think go for a new thread!

As to the actual problem, I think resetting everything means there's some compulsory configuration (autopilot commissioning) that needs to be done before the AP system could be expected to work as intended.

Anyway, the first messages (about missing drive) seem to be related to the root problem (which blew the fuse originally). Or did they do a reset before that as well? So the AP might have been wrongly configured since the first fuse replacement?

The second message about missing rudder feedback might just be a configuration issue. Even if that's solved, though, doesn't mean whatever caused #1 is any better. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2020 at 21:16
I replaced mine with a 25 AMP fuse.   I checked with Hanse and they confirmed the wiring can handle it.   The fuse in front of the Autopilot is 50 AMP,  but its fed by a 15AMP at the 12V panel.  Not a great design
In heavy seas its going to blow trying to steer the boat.   25AMPS should be OK. 

FWIW - I use "glow when blown" fuses in the 12V panel and in my spares kit.  They cost a bit more, but you immediately know which fuse it out, saving a lot of remove-and-examine time...  See below:



Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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