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opinion on dacron crosscut quantum sails |
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Black Diamond 
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Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 1275 |
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 Posted: 09 November 2024 at 22:21 |
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There are now similar cloths by different brands, but they all tend to be woven dyneema or spectra. FWIW- Dimension sailcloth is what I used as they were the only ones who had it back then. |
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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Pzucchel
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Joined: 13 March 2020 Location: floating Status: Offline Points: 659 |
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Posted: 12 November 2024 at 13:15 |
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Thanks guys - it all makes sense. If a low-cost sail would deliver all the value of higher-end options, higher-end would not exist...Nevertheless, i wanted to hear the advantages spelled out. Probably, the most solid argument in favour of hydranet is the 17 years of Rick's sail: the capital investment is higher but the yearly cost - when amortized - is even lower!
I will go to Hydranet and a local sailmaker (living in Mallorca, there's choice!). For your information, i had multiple quotes ranging from 9.0 to 11.5 sm-oz. For the record, 1 smoz is equal to 1.263 ounces per square yard (oz/yd2) or 42.828 grams per square meter (g/m2 or gsm). Now, everybody claims "it's right" - but those providing a heavier tissue obviously claim that the others are saving on the material.... Said this, it came to my mind that the fraction of dyneema vs. PE should obviously be more important than the "weight" - being the weight of dyneema identical to PE. Is there any substantial difference among the various brands? Question to anybody: which weight is your dyneema/spectra sail? heavier jib being a high aspect sail? Thank you!!!
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Hanse588#55
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Black Diamond
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Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 1275 |
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Posted: 12 November 2024 at 13:22 |
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You need to be comfortable with your decision. I was, but the capital investment is about (and it was quite a few years ago) 30% higher than a normal dacron cross-cut sail. A good local sailmaker you can hold accountable for quality matters, as well as the finish work on the sail (reef points, corner work, batten pockets, etc.). Keep in mind that the 17 years was with a full battened main on a roller furling boom. This matters. I doubt that a roller furling mast would prevent flogging as well. I think checking out local sailmakers to see what they think about cloth matters.. If you want, I can send you the estimates I got for my 575 for hydranet sails. They tend to push the cloth their big lofts always use, so you need to make the final decision. Good luck! Hope everything works out. Edited by Black Diamond - 12 November 2024 at 13:47 |
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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Pzucchel
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Joined: 13 March 2020 Location: floating Status: Offline Points: 659 |
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Posted: 12 November 2024 at 13:45 |
I maybe wrong in general - but i have multiple quotations and the price for a hydranet sail now is about 2x more expensive than a good quality Dacron...and 50% more expensive than quantum laminates...just northsail 3di is more expensive!
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Hanse588#55
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Arcadia
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Joined: 27 November 2017 Location: Sag Harbor, USA Status: Offline Points: 1112 |
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Posted: 12 November 2024 at 16:07 |
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Contender “Fibercon” has been suggested to me in the past for radial cut sails. I don’t have any experience with it but it is considerably less expensive that Hydranet. Any thoughts ?
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Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY |
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Black Diamond
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Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 1275 |
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Posted: 12 November 2024 at 16:26 |
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It looks a lot like the other options I was presented, but I have no experience with it. What I used was Dimension/Polyant, which may have some kind of copyright on the name "hydranet". So other makers must use a different soundbyte |
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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Arcadia
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Joined: 27 November 2017 Location: Sag Harbor, USA Status: Offline Points: 1112 |
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Posted: 12 November 2024 at 22:11 |
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Correction. The link above is for the standard Fibercon product. They weave a Dyneema version for higher loads and better stability. I was quoted a full batten version for a main sail on my 588 for about $12,000 US. About half of what North wanted for a 3Di.
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Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY |
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Black Diamond
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Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 1275 |
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Posted: 13 November 2024 at 14:25 |
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Isn't that "apples and oranges"? I thought 3Di (even Endurance) is a molded sail, not woven? Although my molded sails experience is with Elvstrom, I feel confident in saying a molded cruising sail is in no way as durable as a woven sail made of hydranet. Estimates (as we all know) can vary wildly. He is going to have to make the best decision he can based upon the options available there. |
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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Arcadia
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Joined: 27 November 2017 Location: Sag Harbor, USA Status: Offline Points: 1112 |
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Posted: 13 November 2024 at 15:14 |
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Jeez Rick, we all know there is a difference between woven and molded. The conversation is about the various alternatives and their respective cost! Hydranet is one of the more expensive options and I was merely suggesting a lower cost option for a woven sail with all the benefits. Piero, I would look into it. Personally I think it’s a great option that will give light weight, good performance and long life.
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Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY |
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Black Diamond
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Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 1275 |
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Posted: 13 November 2024 at 16:16 |
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Apologies Leon. I had a brain shudder and assumed it was just a cost compare. My expectation on any molded sail (and that includes all the long distance cruising variants) is that they will give you 7-8 years of good use. Providing that you don't over-tension the halyard (which can pull things apart), don't have a lot of flogging, or don't have any significant chafe or abrasion sources. Molded sails *ARE* more fragile, even with a double taffeta for protection and the best of care. The plus side is that they perform very well. I have Elvstrom EPEX SOLANO at this time for my 575 and am happy with it, but I view it as an 8 year sail at best.
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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Black Diamond wrote: