EU Shore power for Hanse 505 US version
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Topic: EU Shore power for Hanse 505 US version
Posted By: STEVE MCINNIS
Subject: EU Shore power for Hanse 505 US version
Date Posted: 05 March 2017 at 12:03
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I have a 2015 505 that is the US version. Therefore she has a 50A shore power cable with the socket for US marinas, so the power comes in as 220V and reads 220V at the panel. She has a Mastervolt Combi inverter/charger 2200 W for inverting to 110 for the domestic plug inside the boat. What would I have to do to use shore power in the EU? Is it just a question of plugs or is there more to it than that? S
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Replies:
Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 05 March 2017 at 15:54
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Hi Steve, do you have 220 V AC in the US marinas? Maybe I misinterpreted your thread. Is the boat configured to supply 110 V 60 Hz AC through the inverter or do you have a direct connection between the shore power and your AC outlets ( via a fault current Switch of course ) ? I have a yellow NEMA Marinco plug on my little US made motor boat and a 16 A blue CE plug on the other side. The yellow plug is clearly marked 230 V and 16 A. Does your US plug have a higher Amp rating ? ------------- Frank |
Posted By: STEVE MCINNIS
Date Posted: 06 March 2017 at 18:03
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In the US at marinas the power is 110, but they combine two 110's into a 220v 50A service. Our boat uses the 220v 50A service as input to the boat, and the AC panel operates at 220v. There is an inverter/transformer that steps this down to 110 for the outlets for the interior of the boat for appliances. The generator voltage is also regulated at 220v and enters the AC panel, and again is stepped down to 110v but only for the appliances. It is not clear to me what the Hz is, 50 or 60. Steve |
Posted By: kipwrite
Date Posted: 06 March 2017 at 19:08
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Steve- Peter M at McMichael walked me through this issue in some detail. I'd chat with him as he is quite knowledgeable on the topic. It's a bit complex. Our US spec 505s AC and hot water heaters are rated for either 50 or 60 cycles. The step down transformer doesn't deal with cycles so everything in our US boats run well on our 60 cycle current. Best, Harvey ------------- Kipwrite |
Posted By: SausalitoDave
Date Posted: 07 March 2017 at 00:12
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I also have a 2015 Hanse 505 and I think the following is correct: Frequency: Most resistance (heating) and electronic (TV's, computers, etc.) systems that run on AC don't care if the power is 50Hz or 60Hz. The name-plate will say. The place line frequency typically matters is on devices that include a motor (a clothing- or dish-washer and air conditioning are common examples on a boat). Electric motors are usually quite sensitive to frequency (Hz or "cycles"). Also, microwave ovens are often frequency sensitive. Of course none of this matters for 12-Volt systems, as these are DC.
The problem is with the voltage: US and European power service is different in part because US domestic wiring is both 220V and 110V. In Europe, all domestic service is 220V. The reason this was done is the US is that lower voltage wiring is safer, the shock hazard is lower. If you look behind your US power service (at the breaker box) you will find two hots (a red and a black), one common (white), and one "safety ground" (green). The common and ground are not connected in the service panel; however, they should be at the same potential; in other words there should be no voltage between them. The safety ground insures that if someone shorts a hot lead to earth ground, it will trip the breaker. In the US, you can get 110V between either hot side and common. In Europe there is no need for 110 volt service, so there is only one hot lead and it is at 220 Volts. My understanding is that this makes it possible to have the common and safety ground as the same wire. So, European supplies are 3 wire with a hot (brown) and neutral (blue) and a safety ground (green/yellow). If your boat is is configured like mine, it is set up for 220V shore power. The deck connection has three pins. Two are hot and one is common. The voltage between to two hot sides in 220. The voltage between any hot pin and ground is 120. When you are in Europe, you would need an adapter that will deliver 220 (or 240 the MasterVolt should not care) across the same two hot pins. There should be no problem getting the 220V to the boat. What I don't know is how 110V is supplied to the rest of the boat. If the MasterVolt just creates a 110V circuit from one of the two hot lead and common it will not be able to do the same thing in Europe. I would find a knowledgeable boat electrical guy, and, with the wiring diagram and the specs of your MasterVolt in hand, talk through what if anything needs to be accommodated on the 120 volt side. That said, anything that runs on your inverter should be fine. It supplies the proper 110 Volt 60 Hz power from the DC side. Good luck. Dave Festina Lente Hanse 505 |
Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 07 March 2017 at 07:34
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Dave, very good description. Europe'm System has the brown, blue and the yellow/green ground. However before you reach the Mastervolt you must have your on board trip switch. I did not know about the 2 US "live" wires. My yellow Marinco NEMA plug has only 3 connectors. My experiences with US electricians are not the best ( machine tool installations ), very few do really understand the European system. Hope you find one of them , or that your Hanse dealer really has an electrical expert. ------------- Frank |
Posted By: SausalitoDave
Date Posted: 07 March 2017 at 18:17
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Frank, I think you will always have only 3 pins on the connector. In the US, 2 of those are hot with respect to common (or ground); in Europe only one is hot with respect to common. In the US the 220 is between the two hot wires, in the UK, the 220 is between the hot connection and common.
Dave |
Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 08 March 2017 at 11:31
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Folks there is a live thread in the YBW Forum about this: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?474547-Step-up-transformer-for-US-craising-in-a-220v-boat/page2" rel="nofollow - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?474547-Step-up-transformer-for-US-craising-in-a-220v-boat/page2 ------------- Frank |
Posted By: High Time
Date Posted: 08 March 2017 at 14:04
Yes indeed. SausalitoDave may recognise one of the entries.  ------------- Roger High Time (415 #038) |
Fendant wrote:Posted By: SausalitoDave
Date Posted: 08 March 2017 at 15:25
| The Australian fellow mentions 3 phase. 3 Phase is an entirely different animal. I avoided that because it is something seldom seen around domestic sources (although I have 3-phase in my home shop). It is common in industrial applications where motors are in wide use (motors are much more efficient with 3-phase). If your marina supplies 3-phase, which I doubt, I have no idea how the connections are made up and I would be very careful. |
Posted By: STEVE MCINNIS
Date Posted: 08 March 2017 at 15:43
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Thanks to all. My head is now totally spinning, as I am not an electrical engineer. Ultimately, I will revert to Peter at McMichaels who will tell me what to do, I am sure....I think ultimately since the boat runs on 220 except for the domestic appliances it won't be a huge deal. S |
Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 08 March 2017 at 16:05
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Yep Steve, this is a good idea. As we do not know excactly your high voltage wiring diagram, we can only post wild specukations about a possible safe solution. Good luck ! ------------- Frank |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 08 March 2017 at 17:48
| Steve, Peter McKenzie is no longer with McMichael's but his replacement Matt Baldwin has been amazingly helpful to me. I did buy my boat from them right enough. Matt can be reached at the same service email that Peter used. |
Posted By: STEVE MCINNIS
Date Posted: 09 March 2017 at 04:08
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when did this occur? I had an email from him on 2/13 S
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Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 09 March 2017 at 18:21
| My apologies I mispoke, it is Grant on the service side Matt replaced not Peter. |