A good way to ruin your SD50 saildrive
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Topic: A good way to ruin your SD50 saildrive
Posted By: Captain Cook
Subject: A good way to ruin your SD50 saildrive
Date Posted: 13 February 2020 at 19:51
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I just posted a warning about the use of GL5 oil in the Italian section, but my advice was answered with a "thanks but no thanks", by a sailor who has confidence in the Quicksilver oil/lube. I just made a search of this Quicksilver oil, and it is extremely difficult to find informations if it is GL5 or GL4/GL5, even on their own homepage, As I recall, the Quicksilver "meets or exceeds GL5", and thereby will be eating the yellow metals in your SD50. In my country we have a old saying: "You can lead the horse to the trough, but you can not force him to drink". I have no intentions to force anyone to abandon GL5, but I can give sound advice to examine the facts about GL4/GL5 and SD50, e.g. in this forum, where StavrosNZ has given a lot of facts about what to do (and especially what NOT to do) about your SD50 saildrive. Use the search function. If you Google the topic, you will get results, where people around the world are stating, that the GL5 is eating the Brass/Copper/Bronze in their vintage Tractors, Cars and Boats. If you do not have the time/patience to seek the truth by yourself, you could (just for safety) take the advice that StavrozNZ/Stephen and I are advocating: ONLY USE GL4 OIL IN YOUR SD50!!! My SD50 manual is 14 years old, but I do not believe, that Yanmar has changed the text:  So, if you believe in Yanmars recommendation, by all means continue to use GL5, it is a newer and a better oil  This is an extract of what I wrote in the Italian forum: Remember to use GL4 oil - it is strictly forbidden to use GL5 oil.
Maybe
Marco can help you with a manual:
http://www.wesailhanse.se/Hanse370_documents/370_documents_yanmar/Yanmar_SD50_Verkstadshandbok.pdf The
problem with using GL5 oil in the SD50 saildrive is described in detail
if you use the search function. Try "SD50", "slipping cone clutch",
"GL5" e.g. NEVER use an oil with GL4/GL5 on the label! You have to use an oil which is solely marked GL4! The
clutch in the SD50 saildrive was invented when it was allowed to use
lead (Pb) in oil. It is now forbidden, and instead there are added other
ingredients which are harmful for the bronze/copper in the cone clutch
in SD50. Yanmar is a company of greedy "kapitalists". They still
recommend GL5 for the saildrives (even though they should know better), and
they have raised the price for spare parts to the SD50. Surely you can
pay them for a replacement SD60 saildrive, so they can earn more money. If
Yanmar had had a little concern about their customers, they would have
issued a Technical Bulletin about the problem with GL5, and they would
have lowered the price of the spare parts.  This Castrol oil is marked GL4 (Recommended by Captain Cook)------------- Freya H400 #27 (2006),2-cabin, 40HP 3JH4E, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB) |
Replies:
Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 13 February 2020 at 20:35
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Quite correct, as Captain Cook says use the search function and see the many detailed threads on this subject. The SD50 saildrive is not Yanmars best work and as built it has inherent design and longevity flaws however with a rebuild of the cone clutch using the upgrade kit that replaces the brass washers with thrust washers and correct the clearances (avalible from saildrives@yahoo.com for approx US$600), venting the gear case and using the correct oil (GL4 only) you will get many years good service. Alternatively feel free to pay somebody to replace it with the newer SD60 but that at huge expense. ------------- Stephen 2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand |
Posted By: margot
Date Posted: 21 February 2020 at 11:45
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Gent. quicksilver lube oil, as write on the stick in Gl4. Thks again to all for the answers. My question is if possible charge the oil sail drive without pump . My hanse is on the ground. thk ste |
Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 21 February 2020 at 14:32
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As I have mentioned above, any Hanse owner can be enlightened by visiting Marcos homepage. Do download the Operation Manual for your saildrive here: http://www.wesailhanse.se/Hanse370_documents/370_documents_yanmar/Yanmar_SD20_50_OM_English.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.wesailhanse.se/Hanse370_documents/370_documents_yanmar/Yanmar_SD20_50_OM_English.pdf Downloading is just the first step, you are expected to read the darned thing as well!  In page 41 of 76 you can see the answer to your question: "YES" -you can use the drain plug. No need to use a pump. If you are interested in the well-being of your boat, try to read a little more of the gold-nuggets on "wesailhanse.se". Look at the Service Bulletins from Yanmar for example. Did you know, that the dipstick on some SD50s have faulty markings? (Overfill can ruin your saildrive). Did you know that there are rules for the use of biodiesel? ...................The search function here on myhanse is another place to find wisdom. In the abovementioned Operation Manual there are recommendations to use GL 5 just as you like, but if you try to search this forum about it, the advice is to use GL4, never GL5. The Quicksilver oil may be GL4, but if it says "exceeds GL4 spec." I would not use it. I have searched the net for technical specications of the Quicksilver, but no luck there. Update: Check the post under this If you look at it like an engineer, you should expect the Quicksilver to be GL5, because it is recommended to new huge outboard engines. The GL4 is an outdated oil, and the only reason that it should be used on Yanmar SD50, is that the SD50 is an outdated saildrive as well, with sensitive yellow metals inside.  ------------- Freya H400 #27 (2006),2-cabin, 40HP 3JH4E, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB) |
Posted By: alettaenmarcel
Date Posted: 23 February 2020 at 19:01
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today I looked at the quicksilver gear oil botle. It says Meets API GL-4 This is what it has to be according Yanmar service.  ------------- Kids Dingys 72-79 ,Several Windsurfboards 79-86 OK dingy competitions 86-92 , Trotter Pandora Race 92-98, Friendship 28 Sport 98-05, Hanse 370 06-...... |
Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 25 February 2020 at 03:11
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If you vent the saildrive gearbox it doesn't mater what dipstick you have or if its slightly overfilled as any pressure is relieved. Packaging for quicksilver seems to vary market to market, here down-under it says suitable for GL-4 it doesn't say it is actually GL-4. I take no risk and use what actually states GL-4 not anything else. ------------- Stephen 2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand |
Posted By: Angelina
Date Posted: 27 February 2020 at 21:42
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Okay guys. I have quicksilver GL 4. But your arguments make sense. Now then what do we use for the SD50. Should be W 90? So which oil do i use? Best Gordon |
Posted By: Angelina
Date Posted: 27 February 2020 at 21:46
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It is not easy nowdays. All oils always state exceeding standards of for instance GL 4 |
Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 28 February 2020 at 01:51
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As stated in many of my posts I use Mercury High Performance Gear Lube SAE90 which is clearly stated as being GL-4 only and has emulsifiers added to ensure any salt water contamination will emulsify properly. In my part of the work Quicksilver says it meets GL-4 but doesn't say its only GL-4 so i dont use it.
 ------------- Stephen 2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand |
Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 28 February 2020 at 13:36
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Hi Gordon (Angelina) In the Hong Kong climate I would use a heavy oil like SAE 90, but here in Scandinavia the climate is in the cold end, so I use "Castrol Manual EP 80W" (GL4/SAE80). I see that you have not added any information to your profile, it is rather simple: Just beneath "Forum Home" in the top left of this page it says "Member Control Panel", click there and choose "Edit Profile". :Kjeld P.S. What is the status with the overheated engine? Did you change the thermostat? ------------- Freya H400 #27 (2006),2-cabin, 40HP 3JH4E, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB) |
Posted By: Angelina
Date Posted: 01 March 2020 at 11:47
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Thank you Stavros. Dealer here says Quicksilver is part of Mercury. Quicksilver and mercury oil may be marketed differrently in different. countries. Claims same oil. Well who knows. Will try to find sae90 gl4. At least i vented in october. Thank you, G. |
Posted By: DJgun
Date Posted: 04 April 2020 at 03:22
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The problem with oil attacking yellow parts is not determined by whether it is GL4 or GL5. The problem is the specific additive package the oil company uses to achieve GL4 or GL5 requirements. There are only a small number of manufacturers of the packages used by oil companies. In reality you may find some brands of GL4 may attack yellow parts, and some GL5 do not and vice versa. It is important to use the oil brand and type which is proven by others to work without problem, and also ensure that the manufacturer in your own company uses the same additive package. As Techical Manager for ZF in Australia many years ago I can say the some companies will change formulation without getting their oil retested by approving body. ZF does their own approvals for this very reason. Be aware that some additive packages may attack seals also, causing premature leaks.
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Posted By: margot
Date Posted: 04 April 2020 at 08:48
| its imho |
Posted By: Anfield
Date Posted: 23 August 2020 at 20:33
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I have tried to locate a dealer of the Castro oil in Norway, however I have found this oil available in Norway, it is a mineral GL4 oil, does anyone have experience about Gulf Gear EP 80W-90? ------------- Bekkis Hanse 370e 2007 #708 |
Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 24 August 2020 at 11:03
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No, the grade is correct but you really want an oil that is designed for marine gear use and contains emulsifiers that will mix the sea water with the oil if you get water ingress. Can you you get Mercury high performance gear lube SAE90? ------------- Stephen 2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand |
Posted By: Anfield
Date Posted: 24 August 2020 at 12:47
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I have tried searching for the Mercury oil on local stores in Norway, but not available. The oil that is "normal" stock in Norway is: Quicksilver Premium Girolje SAE 80W90 API-GL4 However, I do not feel 100 % comfortable that I can use this oil. I have only had the new boat for about 1 week and I would like to start my ownership with the correct oil for saildrive (including correct dipstick), engine oil, antifreeze etc. ------------- Bekkis Hanse 370e 2007 #708 |
Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 24 August 2020 at 20:57
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I have just had a look at the specs for the Quicksilver Product you mention and i am as sure i can be its the same as the Mercury High Performance Gear lube. Yanmar specifies the Quicksilver product in the manual but in my part of the world its not clear on the packaging if its GL4 or not. In your case it clearly specifies GL4, the oil weight is correct and it contains emulsifiers so i would be comfortable using this and think its ultimately the same product. Follow the hints on the rest of this post about venting the saildrive case and upgrading your cone clutch in the future. Change the gear oil at same time/frequency as your engine oil. If your case is not vented be very careful not to overfill, under filling is better (but ensure gears are covered). ------------- Stephen 2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand |
Posted By: ChrisHanse400
Date Posted: 02 September 2020 at 12:14
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hi there, my boat just came back from a long delivery. There was gear oil in the bilge. The saildrive diaphragm has just been changed before delivery. The old dipstick was in the unit, and the oil was far below that. Does this mean the seals are gone from too much oil? Can it be repaired in the water or does it have to come out do you know?
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Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 04 September 2020 at 03:49
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Chris, best you go back to whomever did the diaphragm replacement and complain. Oil has leaked and the fact its in the bilge its likely from seal between saildrive and engine where it would have been separated for saildrive movement for the diaphragm replacement. ------------- Stephen 2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand |
Posted By: ChrisHanse400
Date Posted: 04 September 2020 at 08:04
| yes, I am in discussions with him now. Hoping he doesn’t fob me off as he is in Dublin, and I am in Portsmouth now. |
Posted By: Anfield
Date Posted: 12 September 2020 at 17:45
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My clutch seems to work fine in forward. I noticed a problem today and it is like this: In reverse at low RPM it is engaged but the speed is really low. If I increase the rpm it is a “clunk” and the speed increases. I have not heard about others with similar problems. Anyone know if this is a slipping clutch? ------------- Bekkis Hanse 370e 2007 #708 |
Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 12 September 2020 at 20:42
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Hi Andrew The 370 was delivered standard with 3YM30 and SD20, and for 16.130 SEK you could upgrade to the 3JH4E with SD50. The SD50 has a cone clutch (with problems), the SD20 has a dog clutch. So the question is: Is your saildrive the SD50? :Kjeld
------------- Freya H400 #27 (2006),2-cabin, 40HP 3JH4E, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB) |
Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 12 September 2020 at 22:59
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As Captain Cook says. Cone clutch issue is one of the Achilles heel issues on the SD50. The symptoms you describe are exactly like I had when I first encountered the issue if that is the drive you have. Though in my case it only happened when forward gear was engaged. If it is the cone clutch don’t despair! I had mine removed and lapped. Cost was about £250 and it was removed and back in within the day. After that you can read up on all the tips earlier in the thread re extending the SD50’s life. Mark ------------- Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31 |
Posted By: Anfield
Date Posted: 13 September 2020 at 05:46
I have a 3JH4E with SD50👍🏻 ------------- Bekkis Hanse 370e 2007 #708 |
Captain Cook wrote:Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 13 September 2020 at 08:58
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You can find a multitude of posts about "Yanmar cone clutch slipping" both here in myhanse and on the internet. The description of your problem makes me think of a folding propeller, which is not fully unfolded at low RPM, but then I will have to ask: Do you have a folding propeller? :Kjeld ------------- Freya H400 #27 (2006),2-cabin, 40HP 3JH4E, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB) |
Posted By: Anfield
Date Posted: 13 September 2020 at 09:59
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Yes, I have a folding propeller so that was also my thoughts. I have read all the topics on this on this website at also other sites but have not noticed anyone with the reverse slipping and not simultaneously forward slipping. Anyway, I think I will lap my drive cone just to be sure. ------------- Bekkis Hanse 370e 2007 #708 |
Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 13 September 2020 at 10:25
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My SD50 is from 2006, and I will surely not start lapping the cone before it starts slipping. But if you choose to be up front with it, remember to buy a repair kit which solves the problem by replacing the yellow materials. StavrozNZ has a post about this, but in my archive I found this: (Toholte (Norway) wrote this 20/7-2019, send him a PM for advice) "You can contact Gideon at mailto:saildrives@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - He is very helpful and willing to answer questions. You get a manual with the kit you need to read many times to complete the upgrade. I am in the middle of it now. The clutch is in pieces in my basement. It takes some time, but it’s not very difficult. I paid USD 581 including shipping to Norway."P.S.: Included the price of the kit are shims and a nut with lefthand thread. Yanmar has priced these items astronomically high (shims and nut), so the difference in price is not substantial. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4EwhbRHvvE ------------- Freya H400 #27 (2006),2-cabin, 40HP 3JH4E, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB) |
Posted By: Anfield
Date Posted: 13 September 2020 at 18:31
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Redarding folding propeller teory. Is the reverse gearing in a SD-50 different (needs more RPM to give same trust) than in forward? My SD-50 har 650 hours. ------------- Bekkis Hanse 370e 2007 #708 |
Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 13 September 2020 at 20:54
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The bible for H370-owners is Marco's wesailhanse.se. http://www.wesailhanse.se/Hanse370_documents/370_documents_yanmar/Yanmar_SD50_Verkstadshandbok.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.wesailhanse.se/Hanse370_documents/370_documents_yanmar/Yanmar_SD50_Verkstadshandbok.pdf Both Operation Manual and Workshop Manual are available. In the Operation manual you can find, that the gearing is the same in forward and reverse. The shape of the propeller is optimized for forward motion, and so is the shape of your Hanse370 hull. The intelligent sailor has downloaded a lot of stuff from wesailhanse, and the wisest of them have found a Workshop Manual on the Internet. :Kjeld ------------- Freya H400 #27 (2006),2-cabin, 40HP 3JH4E, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB) |
Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 14 September 2020 at 09:32
Your description fits a prop that has trouble folding out. This is most likely due to marine growth. /H8jer
------------- Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin |
Posted By: Satchmo
Date Posted: 12 December 2021 at 22:48
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Can you help me find a reasonably priced SD-50 saildrive upgrade kit? My Saildrive has 2000 hrs and does all the things other forum owners have described ... clunking into reverse etc I live in Western Australia - 250 kms from a city.....my quote by the OZ Yanmar dealer is $2700 AUD and has to be shipped from Japan ???? none in Australia. The price is 1710 euro or $1933 USD .... seem very expensive and has a 4 week delivery with Xmas
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Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 12 December 2021 at 23:47
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check posts under my username for full details. there is only one upgrade kit that fixes the issues, email Giddeon at saildrives@yahoo.com. aound US$600 for kit plus postage. ------------- Stephen 2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand |