My 505 DD2 autopilot upgrade
Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 505/508
Forum Description: 505/508 Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12431
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 03:29
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: My 505 DD2 autopilot upgrade
Posted By: ohthetrees
Subject: My 505 DD2 autopilot upgrade
Date Posted: 27 December 2020 at 04:28
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As many know from that big Jefa Autopilot failure thread, the DD1 seems to be a trouble point for many. My autopilot failed while in the care of a delivery crew New Caledonia --> Hawaii. In Hawaii, I rebuilt the autopilot (gear teeth had sheared off), and moved the draglink to the proper outer tiller hole (Hanse assembled many improperly). It did fine on my passage Hawaii --> Seattle, but I did baby it a bit (reduced sail if boat speeds exceeded 8kn, even more with bigger following seas). 4000nm after my rebuild it failed again passaging Seattle --> Southern California in following seas. I've decided to upgrade to a DD2. While Jefa recommends the DD1 for boats up to 45', so in this case I blame Hanse for under-speccing, rather than Jefa, who mades good stuff, in my opinion. The DD2 is for boats up to 55' according to Jefa, and is what Hanse should have installed originally. Unfortunately, the DD2 is not a drop-in replacement. The DD2 is too tall to fit in the same space as the DD1, and it doesn't appear even water resistant. Therefore it must be installed upside down under the deck, directly below where the old one was installed using a special tiller arm made by Jefa for this purpose. In this thread I will record my experience getting the DD2 to work. |
Replies:
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 27 December 2020 at 07:49
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I must say, it's been a pleasure (so far) working with Jefa, wonderful technical support. They have answered many technical questions before I committed to the purchase, and the person I'm talking to, Klaus, is clearly an expert. I appreciate that they have gone to the trouble of engineering this 505 specific solution, they didn't have to do that, and will probably only sell 2 or 3 units because of it. I do think that they shouldn't have allowed Hanse to use the DD1. They, reading the subtext, blame Hanse, and Hanse is primarily responsible for what they put on the boat. But I don't think Jefa should have engineered this solution, made build cards for Hanse, and sold them a bunch of DD1 if they didn't think it was up to the task. All these breakages make Jefa look bad too, which is a shame, because they seem to make really good kit. And now there are many 505 customers with broken autopilots, and in my case, going to great expense and trouble to remedy the situation. Several days ago I received the kit. This cost me roughly 3900 euro, shipped to southern CA. This includes the DD2, a large aluminum backing plate, a special conical tiller arm which fits the taper of the rudder, a new longer draglink, and a few other bits of hardware. It's all beautiful stuff. I did have a list of questions for Jefa upon inspecting the gear, which I've reproduced below. I'll update if I get a reply.
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Posted By: kipwrite
Date Posted: 27 December 2020 at 15:47
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Thanks for posting on this topic. I’m hoping this solution works. I’d love to upgrade my DD1. ------------- Kipwrite |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 28 December 2020 at 06:19
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The new DD2 is supposed to mount upside down to the bottom of the deck. Unfortunately, in my case the underside of the deck is a lumpy mess, very uneven, encapsulating the aluminum reinforcing plates for the DD1 autopilot. I decided it had to go as it would cause the DD2 to hang too low, and without a flat even base, so I spent a terrible day on my back in the locker cutting, grinding and sanding. The existing reinforcing plates seemed to be added as an afterthought, and were very roughly encapsulated. I'm not sure if other 505 owners have the same. I cut away the bottom skin, and pried out one of two reinforcing plates. I decided the second reinforcing plate (don't know why there are two) could stay. What was left was the full thickness deck, seemingly cored with resin, minus the bottom skin, with the aft of two aluminum plates still embedded. Then I used thickened epoxy to fair things out, and added a few layers of glass to create a new, flatter bottom skin. It isn't perfectly flat and fair, but it is a lot better than before. Terrible job. Despite the bunny suit, and still have some of that terrible fiberglass itch. Hopefully I'm over the most difficult part of the job. Below are pics of the removal process, tomorrow I'll try to take pics of the new glasswork.
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Posted By: tobo2
Date Posted: 28 December 2020 at 17:27
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Ups, terrible job! So you are one of the three owners that ordered a DD2 according to Jefa. We own a 508 and are thinking of exchanging the DD1. I wonder if this grinding-sanding-fiberglasing work would also be neccessary on the 508. (see thread https://myhanse.com/jeffa-autopilot-failure_topic10801.html" rel="nofollow - https://myhanse.com/jeffa-autopilot-failure_topic10801.html ) After having finished your work it will be interesting to see if this AP works better in rough conditions. I totally agree with "othetrees" mentioning the reputation of Jefa in question. Why the hell did Hanse repeat this mistake with the 508, I really don't understand. |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 28 December 2020 at 22:33
Fiberglass work. Not easy on bottom of a horizontal surface. The underside of the deck is still lumpy, but far more fair and flat than it was previously. I think it is good enough to move forward when it cures.  |
Posted By: kipwrite
Date Posted: 28 December 2020 at 23:00
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Nice job. That spot makes me claustrophobic.
------------- Kipwrite |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 01 January 2021 at 04:42
The reinforcing plate supplied by Jefa did not quite fit in the space where the old DD1 lived. It was maybe 40mm too long in the fwd/aft direction. I presume the 505 that it was originally made for was a little different in this area. I don't have a jigsaw on board yet, so I used a hacksaw and an oscillating saw to cut about 60mm of that aft edge of the plate. It wasn't a hard job, but it took me about an hour of cutting because I didn't have the proper tools. Such is the cruising life. That's San Diego in the background where we are doing last preparations before we head to Mexico in a few days.  |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 02 January 2021 at 22:59
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Installation finished! Except for preparing the underside of the deck, it was a straight forward installation, mostly. The bolts they supplied were a bit too long, particularly the unthreaded nuts. In some cases I cut the bolt shorter, some I used different bolts, and some I spaced with washers. I wonder if they knew about the lumpy thickness of the underside of the deck, and expected it to be bolted on regardless?Or maybe they expected it to be filled/faired, but not any material to be removed. Even though it was a lot of hard work, I don't regret doing it. I have a nice solid flat base for the autopilot, and by removing material I made the mechanical push/pull angle better. Another detail was relocating the rudder sensor. I intended to mount it under the deck, but when I started chasing the cable routing, I discovered it goes through the most inaccessible part of the boat I've found so far, and I decided it would be much easier to leave the sensor near the original location. I tapped some holes in the aluminum plate so I could screw the sensor directly to the plate. Then I swapped the mount points on top and bottom of the sensor arm on both the old tiller arm and the sensor arm. This yielded a satisfactory angle vertical angle, and is a neat enough install. If you look at their drawing of the installation, the alignment of the DD2 unit and the tiller arm is not quite perfect, but instead pushes at a bit of a vertical angle. This is apparently fine, and their "kit" came with an extra tall pin for the output arm, which prevents the drag link arm from interfering with the output arm at extreme ranges of motion. However, while this this taller pin solves the interference problem, it makes the vertical offset to the push/pull angle even worse. One question I have after this install, is why they didn't supply a taller tiller arm pin instead. This would have made the vertical offset better, and would have solved the interference problem at the same time. I've done a dockside test of the autopilot, and will take it out for a sea trial tomorrow. I'm feeling hopeful that this process was worth the trouble and expense. It is certainly much bigger and stouter than the DD1. I'll update this thread if anything else comes up.      |
Posted By: kipwrite
Date Posted: 03 January 2021 at 00:04
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Looks great. Agree that the vertical angle looks a bit weird. I wonder if the rubber bushings on both ends of the tiller arm will wear more rapidly than they would otherwise. I’ve replaced mine a few times since 2016, and the alignment is near perfect. It’s also interesting that the post is not on the outer most hole of the autopilot arm. Do let us know how this installation works out after your sea trial. ------------- Kipwrite |
Posted By: tobo2
Date Posted: 04 January 2021 at 10:39
 I agree with kipwrite: The angle of the rod could cause a problem. With my limited knowledges of physics I can imagine that there is a pulling up/pushing down force/movement on the rudder stock that could damage the bearings holdings. Keep in mind that the DD2 is three times stronger (375 KgM, DD1: 150 KgM). |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 04 January 2021 at 10:48
| I’m not too concerned. Jefa made the bearings, rudder, and autopilot. This is also a solution engineered by Jefa, not something I did off the cuff. They sent drawings of the install, including this angle. I agree less angle would be better, and I’m going to ask them about my idea of a longer tiller arm pin. |
Posted By: tobo2
Date Posted: 04 January 2021 at 11:00
Good idea, send them your pics and your concerns. In fact only time can prove if it is a good solution. You are our oncomouse!  Additionally the drive should be protected by a cover or so as you use the lazarette for storage (fenders etc.) that can block/damage the unit. |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 05 January 2021 at 21:30
| Sailed from San Diego to Ensenada. DD2 performed perfectly. A bit more gear noise than the DD1, but I still rate it a quiet autopilot overall. |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 23:50
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Still very happy with my upgrade. Now I'm in Banderas Bay, having come 1000 nm. Saw some decent sized following seas that had the autopilot working hard. DD2 working perfectly. I did have a bit of a tuning problem. For whatever reason, the calibration of my B&G H5000 autopilot computer that had been working fine with the DD1 was causing big over-corrections in all be settled weather. I even went through the Dockside then Sea Trial commisioning, and didn't help. I was starting to get worried because it just wasn't performing well when wind was powered up, or bigger following seas. But then I manually reduced the rudder gain, and suddenly it started performing brilliantly, and using a lot less power too. Summary: very happy to have an autopilot I trust! |
Posted By: Sailing Pilot
Date Posted: 06 May 2021 at 17:07
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I have a 2017 505 and sail from Maine to Bermuda to Puerto Rico and back every year. I just put the original rebuilt auto pilot back in after the replacement also started to act up (feeling rubbing at far ends of wheel movement with autopilot off, disconnect autopilot arm and it’s gone). I am thrilled with your replacement and will probably do this this summer in Maine. Do you have any more updates? And suggestions that you might do differently?Thank you so much! ------------- Carter |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 22 August 2021 at 22:38
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Hi Sailing Pilot, Still happy with my upgrade. The only things I would add, you might ask Jefa for a slightly smaller reinforcing plate so you don’t have to cut yours down.
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Posted By: Sailing Pilot
Date Posted: 20 December 2022 at 17:46
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I am finally going to install the upgraded autopilot and Jefa is shipping it to me now. Any final lessons learned? Thank you so much for being the one to get this project working! ------------- Carter |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 21 January 2023 at 19:18
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Still working great after some hard miles, though I'm working on getting a new pin machined that will reduce the angle between the arm and the tiller. I've 3D printed a mock-up so I know it will fit. Just need to find a place here in Colombia that can machine it for me out of 316. |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 18:53
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Thought I would give an update. The upgrade continues to be a very good decision, and I'm really glad I did this. Having confidence in the autopilot is critical. There is a clearance problem with the "stock" pins when the DD2 is installed in the 505. Their solution was to provide a taller drive arm pin, which made the angle problem worse. I felt the same could be accomplished by the normal drive pin, and a taller tiller pin, and that would improve the angle problem. I wasn't able to talk Jefa into agreeing that a taller tiller pin, and a
shorter drive pin would give clearance AND a more direct push-pull. Language barrier? Not sure. Anyway, I designed a taller tiller pin and had it machined, replaced the drive pin with the shorter "stock" pin that comes with a standard DD1/DD2 kit (had one left over from my old DD1. The new setup looks great, doesn't interfere, and has a much more direct push/pull. The plastic bushings were damaged from the extreme angle, and the metal "rose joints" were dinged up from the pins and washers colliding with the metal at extreme angles. I removed the plastic ball from these expensive metal parts, and used a dremel to smooth (sandpapter wheel) then polish all the rough spots and now they are moving much more smoothly. The picture doesn't do justice to how much better the angle is throughout the entire range of motion. More details: I 3D modeled various pins and 3D printed them in plastic, just so I could mock up the clearance angles. PDF drawing of the tiller pin that you can show a machine shop: https://www.myhanse.com/uploads/6425/Autopilot_Pin_Prototype_Drawing_v2.pdf" rel="nofollow - uploads/6425/Autopilot_Pin_Prototype_Drawing_v2.pdf Fusion 360 3D drawing: http://a360.co/41DONcf" rel="nofollow - https://a360.co/41DONcf The shorter drive pin is available direct from Jefa. In fact it is the standard drive pin (I think butt not positive is part Z4-225 check yourself!), not the custom one that came with the Hanse 505 "upgrade kit". Below are some pics. As you can see the angle is much better.      |
Posted By: Sailing Pilot
Date Posted: 10 December 2023 at 06:40
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I now have the DD2 autopilot installed. It seems to be over correcting a lot. I saw you changed the gain, but I have not found the right number yet. Could you please tell me the gain number you are using and counter steering number and any other settings you think might help. Thank you again for all your help! ------------- Carter |
Posted By: Rewild Steve
Date Posted: 25 February 2025 at 08:52
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I have also installed the DD2 on my 505 about 2 years ago and done many miles since then. Overall it’s a great auto pilot though is very water sensitive I have found. I have had 2 corrosion related issues with the clutch motor in the past 6 months but nothing prior to that point. Have you had any issues with the clutch motor? Since my issues I have pulled the clutch apart a few times and realised how little protection there is, in regards to waterproofness besides the outer case itself. Water resistant is a mild way of putting it. I see in your pictures you didn’t install the gaiter. I also done the same but since having my issues I have cut the rudder tube down by 150mm and installed the gaiter. Seems to be preventing any splash back onto the drive unit. I also installed better seals around the hatches to help prevent any water overflow from getting into the hatches and running onto the DD2. It might be worth you doing the same and hopefully saves you some $$$
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Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 25 February 2025 at 11:09
| I have had no issues. Mine didn’t come with a gaiter, I’m not even quite sure I understand where one would be installed. The way mine is installed it stays bone dry. How does water reach the DD2 in your system? |
Posted By: Rewild Steve
Date Posted: 25 February 2025 at 11:44
I can’t identify for sure but the most likely culprit is when your in breaking following seas or at times when water is been pushed under the stern it creates water to splash up the rudder tube. I have been down there and noticed this on anchor when wind and sea state are opposing or when a tender creates wake. The other possibility is when there is too much water in the cockpit (for example if using a hose to wash down the teak) that the locker channels overflow causing some water to drip into the locker and somehow run onto the drive unit. I have not seen this though is the only other possibility I have come up with. I have sailed over 20,000nm in 2 years on my DD2 so the timeframe I have encountered these issues may also be put down to the miles covered though I would of thought this should not be the case and the unit could handle the miles traveled. Hard to say for sure the cause besides that’s it’s from corrosion related damage. Might be worth taking some preventative measures if you have the chance. See picture for how the gator sits. |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 11 March 2025 at 15:20
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Thanks for the pics Steve. We are at anchor here in Les Saintes Gaudaloupe, and just took a mighty slap to the ass from a passing ferry. It even splashed up into the cockpit. I took the opportunity to go down into the aft locker and look for signs of splashing up the rudder tube – all was bone dry, no signs of salt or of previous splashing. We put our DD2 in in San Diego in 2020, and are now in the Caribbean, and have put on some 10,000nm on our DD2, and no signs of splashing from the rudder tube. I'm curious why you would get splashing up that tube and I don't. I'm wondering, do you think it is possible that you have salt water running down a bolt from above instead? Are you sure you get splashing up the tube? |
Posted By: RMY72
Date Posted: 06 May 2025 at 17:09
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I realize it's been a while since this original thread was posted. Would like a follow-up post to see how well the DD2 has been performing. Question. Not sure what brand electronics you have, but i'm assuming some changes needed to be made with the chart plotter/AP control unit? Can you elaborate on that, please. ------------- 2018 Moody DS45 |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 06 May 2025 at 20:04
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I'm OP, and I'm actually on passage right now Bahamas-->Maryland and the DD2 continues to be great! We had one day of very short sharp seas, and 25kn from behind, surfing up to 11kn. Wind wasn't bad, but the steep seas kept lifting a stern quarter and pushing us around. DD2 continues to be a wonderful upgrade considering this boat chewed up and spat out 3 DD1s previously. I made no changes to my existing electronics, though the previous owner did spec it with a H5000 system, don't know if the base one would be the same. I just ran the "Dockside" and "Sea Trial" commissioning on the autopilot controller. |
Posted By: SVZara
Date Posted: 23 May 2025 at 17:28
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I am still on my DD1, but have eyes on your DD2 upgrade. I have been fortunate to not have issues and have been out in some stormy weather. I do believe its a matter of when not if, however. ------------- Marc S/V Zara 2016 Hanse 505, Hull #129 |
Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 23 May 2025 at 18:13
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If you daysail, or stick close to home, I might not bother. If you passage-make, I think it is a critical upgrade. Steering effort gets quite high surfing down waves at more than 10kn. |
Posted By: rperezalbores
Date Posted: 10 December 2025 at 17:19
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I have upgraded to DD2 also but it is not going well. The tiller arm slips from the rudder shaft causing a big mess. I had to unbolt the 4 bolts at sea to recover manual steering. At that point i have noticed that the tiller arm is not locked up to the rudder stock as per jefa recommendation, either a key or 2x10mm bolts. My rudder does not have any key so only optiom i see is to use 2x10mm bolts. Did you drill holes in the rudder stock to accept tbese two bolts?
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Posted By: ohthetrees
Date Posted: 10 December 2025 at 20:32
| I'm sorry it isn't going well for you. It was years ago now that I did the install. I don't remember one way or the other if there was a shaft key and keyway, but I can confirm I definitely did not drill the shaft or through-bolt it. The kit tiller arm has never slipped in years of hard service. |