505: DC Electrical Questions
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Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 505/508
Forum Description: 505/508 Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12996
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Topic: 505: DC Electrical Questions
Posted By: SVZara
Subject: 505: DC Electrical Questions
Date Posted: 08 September 2021 at 13:55
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This past weekend we found ourselves with low voltage error (11.5v) from the house bank of batteries. We had been on a mooring instead of a dock for 5 days and so was not connected to shore power to charge the batteries. 1) When we ran the engine, it seemed the house bank did not charge. Does the house batteries charge when running the engine, or only the start batteries? I noticed the charge controller panel is not on in this scenario. Does it need to be on for the house bank to charge? 2) Is shore power or generator the only ways to charge the house batteries? What about start batteries? Thruster batteries? 3) Is there a combiner switch if you wanted to combine the start bank with the house bank in an emergency? Would this allow to charge both banks of batteries? 4) What does the engine charge when running? Trying to understand better how the DC circuits re-charge. ------------- Marc S/V Zara 2016 Hanse 505, Hull #129 |
Replies:
Posted By: Arcadia
Date Posted: 08 September 2021 at 15:52
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There should be an automatic combiner that activates when the engine is charging. This combines the house and engine batteries. It usually activates once the charge voltage has reached 13 volts. It may cycle a bit if the house banks are very low. On the 588 , it’s located near the house battery main buss. The charger inverter (shore power) will also charge the same way through the combiner. In both cases, once the charging stops, the combiner will sense that the voltage has dropped below 12.8 volts and will isolate the two banks. ------------- Leon / ARCADIA 2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY |
Posted By: High Time
Date Posted: 08 September 2021 at 15:54
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Hi Marc I have a 415 but the principles for DC are probably the same. In answer to your questions - 1. The house bank should charge once the start battery has charged to around 14V. There is an automatic combiner that combines the 2 banks at a set voltage (which can be adjusted). 2. No. The engine alternator should charge both batteries - see above. There is usually a battery to battery charger that connects the house bank to charge additional batteries like the thruster. 3. There is no manual combiner switch in the as delivered system but the automatic combiner mentioned above can be wired to include a manual switch to provide the combiner function. 4. The rated output of the alternator is 115A. However, the actual charge rate depends on the state of the batteries and the cabling between alternator and batteries. I have rarely seen more than about 60A from the alternator into the house bank and this rapidly decreases as the charge builds up in the batteries. Hope that helps. Good luck. ------------- Roger High Time (415 #038) |
Posted By: SVZara
Date Posted: 08 September 2021 at 18:26
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Thank you for all the info. Seems strange that the engine didn't make the house bank voltage budge from 11.5v. The generator definitely seems more efficient when it comes to charging compared to the engine. I am glad to know there is this combiner functionality in the system. ------------- Marc S/V Zara 2016 Hanse 505, Hull #129 |
Posted By: SVZara
Date Posted: 08 September 2021 at 21:45
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Does the bow thruster and the anchor windlass share the same battery bank or does the windlass run off of the house bank? ------------- Marc S/V Zara 2016 Hanse 505, Hull #129 |
Posted By: kipwrite
Date Posted: 09 September 2021 at 00:39
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On the 505 the thruster runs off a dedicated battery forward. Windlass runs off the house batteries. ------------- Kipwrite |
Posted By: Arcadia
Date Posted: 09 September 2021 at 01:15
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If your house banks never rises above 11.5 volts, then there may be a problem with the combiner. Normally the engine alternator will charge much more rapidly than the inverter charger. Mine will put out 120 amps for hours at a time where as the inverter charger will quickly drop to about 60 amps ------------- Leon / ARCADIA 2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY |
Posted By: SVZara
Date Posted: 09 September 2021 at 02:53
Ok. Good to know. I will investigate that. ------------- Marc S/V Zara 2016 Hanse 505, Hull #129 |
Arcadia wrote:Posted By: SVZara
Date Posted: 09 September 2021 at 02:56
If I recall, the house battery main buss is located behind power panels at the chart table? Or do you mean down under the floor where the shutoffs are? ------------- Marc S/V Zara 2016 Hanse 505, Hull #129 |
Posted By: Debutante
Date Posted: 09 September 2021 at 09:31
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Shortly after buying my nearly new 388 I too noticed that the service battery was not charging from the alternator. The cable from the alternator to the battery combiner was giving about 11.5V. I traced the problem to the 125A fuse in the alternator to battery combiner cable which was loose and after tightening the fuse nuts, the voltage went back to normal and the service battery got charged. The fuse is in the engine compartment with a cover over it. ------------- H388 #205 Debutante |
Posted By: skhunter
Date Posted: 14 September 2021 at 20:28
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Hello, I just came in possession of a 470e with no documentation and no battery power (but they were dead when I got it) I see switches under the port side table for engine, house, winch, etc. But I read about a separate battery selector switch that I can not locate ? Can you tell me where this should be located ? Thanks Steve
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Posted By: SVZara
Date Posted: 17 September 2021 at 04:42
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What is the make and model# of the battery combiner on the 505?
------------- Marc S/V Zara 2016 Hanse 505, Hull #129 |
Posted By: Arcadia
Date Posted: 17 September 2021 at 05:06
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I believe it is a Mastervolt 2502. ------------- Leon / ARCADIA 2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY |
Posted By: colinc
Date Posted: 17 September 2021 at 05:09
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The 505 has a Victron Cyrix - although it may depend on which charger/inverter is installed. The advantage of an automatic charge relay is that you don’t have to do anything. The disadvantage is that the battery banks may be getting charged when they don’t need charge so reducing life - usually the engine starter battery suffers a little. It is also sometimes useful to combine the batteries manually if, for example, the engine starter battery needs help. For that reason some add a manual switch to the setup.
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Posted By: Iris
Date Posted: 13 October 2021 at 17:56
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Hi, I also have a 415 is the battery combiner the black box behind the batteries on the LHS when facing the battery box?I am thinking of connecting the solar charge controller to the battery combiner to keep all batteries topped up over the winter.You seem to know a lot more about this than me, does this seem a sensible solution rather than adding an additional device?Thanks Tony
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Posted By: colinc
Date Posted: 13 October 2021 at 18:31
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You only need to connect to one battery set - domestic best. The charge relay will connect all batteries when any one goes over a threshold voltage - the charging voltage. So any one being charged will charge all of them. On the 505 there are also DC-DC convertors to charge the 24V bow and stern thruster batteries. They too will keep a charge from the domestic batteries and from your solar charger. All good if your solar charger will keep all those topped up. Only a problem if it gets covered up or disconnected. If that is likely then better to disconnect all the batteries. Best to keep an eye on it during the winter.
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Posted By: Arcadia
Date Posted: 13 October 2021 at 22:31
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The only problem I see with that set up is the possible cycling of the combiner. If the solar array can’t keep up with the domestic loads as they are switched on and off during operation, then the combiner will repeatedly connect and disconnect as the battery voltage goes from a high voltage (above 13) to a low voltage (below 12.8). This may damage the combiner. ------------- Leon / ARCADIA 2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY |
Posted By: colinc
Date Posted: 14 October 2021 at 05:25
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Cycling hasn’t been a problem for me. If you are concerned about that you will have to disconnect the charge relay when using the panels. You will need another way to charge the other battery banks. But I don’t think it is a problem. How much current does your panel provide? Is it just to keep topped up over winter or for keeping batteries supplied when the boat is in use? If the later then the current supplied from the panels will usually cope with most domestic loads.
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Posted By: Iris
Date Posted: 14 October 2021 at 08:22
| Hi thanks for the replies,you are obviously more knowledgeable. The system I have is 2 x 110w Sunpower demountable panels on the Bimini currently wired through a Victron 100/50 and fused to the house bank direct. I didn’t have time to fit the permanent 50w on the garage hatch which I plan to do at the first opportunity,this will go to same charge controller.So when I’m using the boat I’ll have 270w potential and when I’m not on it I’ll have 50w to top up the batteries. My question (which I think you’ve answered) is do I need to connect the solar charger output to the VSR/combiner or will my current arrangement direct to the house batteries take care of ALL batteries over the winter THROUGH the VSR/Combiner? Thanks Tony |
Posted By: colinc
Date Posted: 14 October 2021 at 16:04
| yes what you have now will charge all the batteries. And will be plenty for winter top up. Maybe worth checking on her a few times during the winter in case a seagull leaves a present on the panel or something. |