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Continuing anchor discussion

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Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 400
Forum Description: 400 Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13361
Printed Date: 27 February 2024 at 17:10
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Topic: Continuing anchor discussion
Posted By: Rock
Subject: Continuing anchor discussion
Date Posted: 30 April 2022 at 14:09



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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241



Replies:
Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 30 April 2022 at 14:10
Sorry to start/continue a discussion like this, I just couldnít post these words , very odd 

Peter


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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: 32mike
Date Posted: 30 April 2022 at 14:41
My 458 came with a 21kg Ultra. Iíve been pretty happy with it. Hasnít dragged yet.

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Mike
S/V Dulces SueŮos
458 #087
Tampa, FL


Posted By: S&J
Date Posted: 30 April 2022 at 15:12
I replaced the 20kg Delta with an Epsilon while commissioning.
What makes you think this isn't good?
It sets very quickly and resets if tide changes.
I dragged twice last year, once in 35kts in an anchorage strewn with debris.  Dragged 50m before resetting (we had loads of room).  When I lifted in the morning there was a bundle of old rope in the fluke.
Second time was more worrying, in a very crowded anchorage which we entered at 3am. I was satisfied that we were holding firm but wind shift at 6am caused drag with very little room to recover.  Bottom was very slity sand (others described it as liquid sand) and I clearly didn't do my homework in selecting this after a 36hr sail.  No harm done other than to pride.
Neither caused by the anchor itself and for the other 120 nights at anchor I was totally secure.
Epsilon fits onto the standard roller although the pin is slightly too high which means a bit of a faff to secure.


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H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising


Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 30 April 2022 at 17:40
Thanks for your feed back
Honestly mainly because of Panopeís tests.
epsilon didnít perform too good in that, last year.

I realize Panope isnít the only tester  either, but have to believe it is the (at least one of) the reason so many people (also on this forum) talk about and heave mantus, sarca or Rocna Vulcan, all top 3 listed in panopeí s tests.

I have not really seen any real life test reviews of the epsilon after that.

Can we assume that if an anchor fits on the newer Hanse models, it also fits in the anchor rollers of 370, 400 etc?




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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 03 July 2022 at 15:03
So I went ahead and bought the 20kg Rocna Vulcan (actually weighed in at 22 kg on the scales).

It is indeed rather wobbly on the standard 400 anchor roll setup.
Swinging about in waves, not desirable.

Spent a Sunday morning putzing  around with a piece of teak and an 80% plan.
While sawing and shaving, the plan developed.

The result will work I believe, the anchor doesnít swing from side to side anymore.
The piece of teak doesnít hinder normal operation, the chain will pass under it, and it will secure the anchor when pulled up to a stop.
It swivels somewhat to align with the rounded shape of the shank.

I also drilled 2 extra holes in the anchor roll, to be have a point to lash the anchor down, further back.

After untying the lashing the anchor is self launching.

Needless to say, it will we stowed when really rough conditions are expected.

And, yes, my anchor role is a bit bent from an incident a while back.

Still the standard anchor role is too flimsy with 3 mm stainless.
Thinking about having it copied (maybe some small changes),  made new with 5 mm plate stainless.

Somewhat DIY-ish, but for what itís worth.

Peter





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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 03 July 2022 at 15:07





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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 03 July 2022 at 15:27
Hi Rock

That looks nice.
I have the Rocna 15kg and 8 mm chain. The non-vulcan version interfered with my Code0 setup.
( https://myhanse.com/new-bowsprit-for-code0-genaker_topic13398_post110982.html#110982" rel="nofollow - https://myhanse.com/new-bowsprit-for-code0-genaker_topic13398_post110982.html#110982 )

But we sleep very confident with the knowledge that it has superior holding power.
With our Hanse 370 we also had a Bavaria 42 Match alongside in gusts of 10-14 knots. (that is 15.000 kg, 2 hulls and 2 x 18 meter masts) no problem.

We have also been hosts for a boat-island with 3 other boats alongside, a total of 25 tons, 4 masts...
That was in gusts to 10 knots. Even had a 180 degree wind-shift but only in 5 knots of wind.
No problem at all

Both experiences was in zero wave condition.


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Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 16 July 2022 at 00:51
I swapped the Standard 16Kg Delta on my 400e to a 20kg Manson Supreme. I modified the anchor roller with the addition of a Mantis Anchor Mate (a swinging heavy duty rubber pad) that really locks the larger anchor in place on the standard roller. The Manson cost me very little but has been a huge upgrade (even if Panope doesnít score it highly itís still vastly better than the Delta on UK East Coast mud). Whatever anchor you go for check out Mantusí Anchor Mate. Worth the money to secure a larger anchor properly and simple to install. The smaller version fits perfectly & both the LH & RH versions would fit  

BTW I donít think a 25kg anchor would fit the standard roller. Would be interested if anyone achieved that and whether the standard windlass copes with it too?

Mark



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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31


Posted By: Dogscout
Date Posted: 16 July 2022 at 14:42
On my 430e which may have the same roller hardware as the 400, I have a 25 kg Rocna fitted.  The 16 kg Delta that my boat came with dragged on me 2 times and that was enough.  

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Adventure awaits


Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 30 December 2022 at 12:04


My experiment with the  teak piece of wood to hold my 20kg Vulcan in place on the standard H400 bow roller, has failed.

Partly because the Hanse factory roller itself is flimsy/bendy (3mm sheet metal).

Now thinking about asking a metal worker to copy the standard roller in 5mm SS sheet metal.

And to add the Mantus anchor Mate, to fix/secure the anchor.
Actually a bit confused, there is talk about the anchor mate and the anchor guard.
And I see different shapes in PU inserts.
it looks like one type of insert locks the fluke, while the other grips the shank.
Is that depending on the size ?
mark (grey goose), you mention using the smaller size, mantus call that Ďmediumí (up to 85lbs anchors), right?
What does your PU insert look like?

Upgrading the boat is  fun but these little sizing issues sometimes cause headaches.

Anybody any insight?

Best regards,
Peter 


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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 30 December 2022 at 20:50
Peter - when Iím next on Grey Goose Iíll grab you a shot of the Anchor Mate doing its thing with my 20Kg Manson Supreme. The combination work well. The anchor mate works to secure the flukes tightly with the shank hard against the roller. No movement at all even in significant seas. 

Agree with you re the original anchor roller being Ďslimlineí!  Iíd also like to get another made up in thicker SS. That said, itís survived a lot of anchoring in the last couple of years. 

Mark


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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31


Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 02 January 2023 at 13:42
Here you go Peter. LH or RH version of Anchor Mate will fit standard roller. LH is possibly a little easier to fit but RH works fine for me. 

Mark




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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31


Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 03 January 2023 at 08:23
Thanks markThumbs Up 

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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 04 January 2023 at 12:47
Originally posted by Mark_J1 Mark_J1 wrote:

Agree with you re the original anchor roller being Ďslimlineí!  Iíd also like to get another made up in thicker SS. That said, itís survived a lot of anchoring in the last couple of years. 

Agree completely and I thought about a replacement in thicker SS as well.  However, the roller assembly is only going to be an issue if the conditions are bad enough to cause the rode to swing violently from side-to-side, exiting at acute angles placing severe strain on the jaws of the assembly.  Shock loading from yawing can be truly massive, easily bending or destroying the fitting and my own bears some evidence of this.  

Having sat out several storms at anchor including a 60 knotter which I was stupid enough not to have run for more shelter from, I rig a twin 10m-legged bridle of 14mm octoplait from the midships cleats through the forecleat gap to the chain below the roller where its attached by a softshackle. While the chain itself still passes over the roller it hangs limply in a long loop and there's no tension in it; all the strain is taken by the bridle.  Should I need to let out more chain I simply move the bridle from the midships to the forecleats and adjust the chafe protection.  This arrangement eliminates snatching, reduces yawing and helps keep the anchor shank at a low angle.

The other instance where the roller assembly might fail is in trying to retrieve a fouled anchor.  Normal practice is to heave the cable in until its straight up and down to allow the natural movement of the boat to break the anchor free.  However, higher waves could generate forces that soon overwhelm the assembly and I don't like to push the issue.  Motoring gently at different angles, diving or even buoying and releasing the anchor are all alternatives but my point is that I'd avoid placing much stress on the roller in this situation.  In extremis I'd rather replace an anchor and cable instead of risking the rig as the roller/forestay fitting suddenly gets torn off, thus ruining your entire day...

Interesting about the Anchor Mate though; many thanks for posting, Mark.


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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 04 January 2023 at 17:01
Ratbasher - a 2nd vote for a bridle to the midships cleats. I found my 400 sails a lot less at anchor if I do that. Though I do get some funny questions about it in anchorages :)

When lifting the 20Kg Manson I think the standard roller is on its limit but is ok. The anchor digs in well in UK mud, shale and sand seabeds!  Iíve learned to be patient when extracting it if its been down for long & in big winds. I usually drive the boat up to it and shorten scope well before I want to leave. Then just let the chop start to unstick it. Amazing how well an anchor hangs on with less than 2:1 scope when you want it to come out!  If I really expect an issue I use the Ďrock slotí option on the Manson which helps significantly. 

Mark


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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31


Posted By: landlocked
Date Posted: 04 January 2023 at 18:19
Ratbasher:   I've been rethinking my anchor bridle arrangement and it hadn't occurred to me to use the midships cleats.   When you say "forecleat gap" do you mean the chock on the rail at the bow, or the opening in the base of the foreward cleat itself?   Is the idea to provide more stretch in the bridle without putting it all overboard?   (I've tried a long bridle in the water and it gets twisted around the chain).   Does the chafing protection perform ok when the bridle stretches?

Thanks for the post, I'll give it a try next time.


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"Kerkyra" 400e #042


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 05 January 2023 at 12:51
Owen - in between the legs of the cleat itself and yes, to provide for a longer bridle.  I've enclosed each leg within 1.5m of anti-chafe webbing which can easily be moved along the leg but which stops in place once set.  Suggest not to use plastic as this will make the rope sweat under load. Although I've no scientific evidence, I think that putting the line through the fore cleat spreads the load between cleats while still permitting the required stretch.  I simply could not believe the stretch I was seeing on the rope at 60kts of wind; it was like something out of the 'Twilight Zone' for those with memories back that far, yet the anchor (single 20kg Rocna) held fast.  I've found 10m to be fine but another option is perhaps 30m each leg taken back around a spinny block aft to a winch, thus allowing greater adjustment.  The bridle could always double as a towing bridle or for a Jordan series drogue (next season's project).  However, this all means that the bridle must be considered a consumable item and replaced every so often.   

Mark - yes, I get comments too.  Last year one was from the guy in Porth Cressa who got a good view of it when he dragged down onto my boat...    I think there's little to choose between your Manson and my Rocna as both are demonstrably miles better than the Delta plough which, err, ploughs.  Hanse should be ashamed of shipping a 15kg hook on anything over 8 tons.  However, its frightening how many boats you see anchored with no snubber at all, presumably with their chain running straight from the windlass. 

As will have become obvious by now, I confess to being an 'anchor bore'.  If anyone is interested in the scientific theory, I can thoroughly recommend the work of Alain Frayyse  http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/forces/forces.htm" rel="nofollow - Forces (free.fr)  

Iain




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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: landlocked
Date Posted: 07 January 2023 at 19:33
Iain:   Thanks for these details and the reference material about anchoring forces.   I look forward to a new approach to my anchor bridle setup this year.  I have a 20kg Delta anchor and ironically I had asked my broker to provide a Rocna in 2006 when they were still very new here, but I'd seen some good test reports on them.   The broker decided that would be too much trouble so I didn't get my Rocna and have been a little bitter ever since as I continued to hear good things about them.   I've never dragged my Delta though I've had to  make multiple attempts sometimes to get a good set.   Mind you I have also never anchored in 60 knot winds and hopefully never will!   

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"Kerkyra" 400e #042


Posted By: Martin&Rene
Date Posted: 07 January 2023 at 20:36
In an article in a UK magazine, the writer recommended 10mm nylon climbing rope as being an ideal bridle rope for 30-40ft yachts, possibly going to 12mm for larger yachts.  He recommended 2 lengths of rope in a bridle over the anchor roller and fastening them right back to the back of the yacht, so that there was at least 10m of rope snubber to absorb the shock loads.  

On a very gusty anchorage, with only about 8m of rope as a snubber, it was interesting to see just how much the slack in the anchor chain was being taken up and yet if you were down in the cabin there was no indication of any shock loads as the yacht yawed about. 


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Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 08 January 2023 at 12:01
Hi Martin - yes, I read that about climbing rope too.  Haven't tried it myself but I can see the attraction.   Although the friction of the water would damp the effect and absorb some of the rebound, I'd want to make sure it wasn't too springy, though.  However, while I appreciate that the author was writing generically I certainly would not want to put both legs of the bridle over any cantilevered anchor roller such as on the 370/400.  The strain from yawing would most likely damage the assembly and chafe through the rope; chafe protection only lasts so long.  You'd also lose the benefits that a wider-set bridle gives against yaw; might not be much but as they say on that TV advert, 'every little helps'.  I do agree that about 8-10m is the sweet spot for length, however, regardless of vessel size or weight.   Like you, I found that the difference that a properly rigged snubber makes has to be experienced to be believed.  Given the choice, I far prefer to be at anchor during a real blow than on a mooring ball.  





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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 08 January 2023 at 13:06
Hi Owen - you're welcome; there's probably only been slightly more arguments over anchors than Prince Harry has picked with his family.  While both can be equally boring at least anchors have a use; the other simply has one syllable adrift...

I'd far rather be on a boat where the skipper knew how to set a Delta properly than one with a Rocna just chucked over the side in hope, as you see so many doing.   That said, as you point out a great advantage is that the modern designs set rapidly.  Mine has been great other than in heavy weed; I'm considering a Spade or Sarca Excel as a 2nd anchor as they seem to do better in such conditions but will try to avoid such whenever possible.  Incidentally, my comment about anchoring in 60 kts wasn't intended as any form of compliment to my seamanship - I made that classic mistake of believing the forecast that I wanted to believe.  Still, while the experience was 'sobering' (expletives deleted) it gave me huge confidence in the boat itself and the anchoring tackle.  What it did do was confirm the policy of always anchoring for very strong winds if intending to sleep on the boat overnight.



  

  


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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 09 January 2023 at 19:26
Ratbasher - FYI an alternate to the Spade & Sarca. If you can find one at the right price, I found a Fortress FX-37 fits the standard Hanse roller. Excellent kedge anchor for weed as an alternative to the bower. It also breaks into component pieces & weighs in at less than 10kg. If anything, Iíve gone oversized and the FX-23 is probably the sweet spot for weed & kedge hook purposes. I long ago imported it from the US when exchange rates werenít uphill to the UK :)

Mark


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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 10 January 2023 at 10:32
Hi Mark - many thanks, yes; I'd been looking at the cheaper 'Guardian' version as a kedge to replace my old Delta used for that purpose.  Made by the same company but without the facility to adjust the blades to different angles. We lived by the Chesapeake for some years for which Fortresses were absolutely brilliant in the prevailing gloop but I'd never even considered one for weedy bottoms.  I recall from that YM article on the H400 that you've cruised pretty widely so I guess you've had good results.  If a kedge is able to double as the bower when conditions change in its favor then this would certainly save space - and very importantly weight given the amount of extra crap gear we carry for cruising now.  My only concern would be resetting with the turn of the tide when staying for a while.

Iain


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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: Raimondo
Date Posted: 02 April 2023 at 21:19
Hi Rock,

Thank you for the pictures.
I would like to if you are still using the 8mm chain and the original Lewmar Pro Series 1000 windlass with the new Rocna Vulcan and if they all fit well together.

In addition I would like to know i f you considered the Detla 20kg when you did the upgrade of the anchor.

We had a couple of unpleasent situations with the Delta 16kg (Hanse 400) in strong wind and guts and I'm considering an upgrade.

Thank you in advance,
Raimondo


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400e #499 2009 "Cricca 4" ITA16254


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 03 April 2023 at 11:09
Rainmondo - if I may pre-empt Peter's reply, 8mm chain with the original windlass has been fine with my 20kg Rocna.  It fits the bow OK even with a top-down furler set on the bowsprit.  Any of the new-style (Rocna, Spade, Excel, Manson etc) should out-perform a Delta of similar weight provided they've been set correctly.

That said, if you're anchoring in stronger winds and gusty conditions I'd recommend using at least Grade 40 chain.  8mm Grade 40 has a breaking strain of just over 4000kg while Grade 70 is over 7000kg.  The Working Load Limit is about one third of those figures, however.  Use of a bridle is a must (see earlier posts) and I'd only use a swivel if you had found you definitely needed one as they introduce another potential point of failure into your system.  If you must have one, I'd recommend using a few links of 10mm chain between the anchor and swivel.  If you connect it straight to the anchor as so many still seem to do, you reduce the breaking strain even on a Kong from 5000kg in a straight line to 2000kg on a lateral pull and risk a sudden fracture of one of its arms.  Not something you want to be worrying about anchored in a dark and stormy night...


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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 03 April 2023 at 16:48
Indeed Raimondo, still using the standard 8mm chain.
And actually replaced my smaller swivel for a bigger Kong (sorry, straight to the anchor).

As Iain also suggests, I switched from the delta as the newer anchor designs have been continuously improved from the classic delta and spade design, and  proven more capable during tests.

and my standard Lewmar pro series 1000 appears to be dealing well with the 20kg Rocna.

Actually also bought an off the shelve sailinox anchor bowroller 780x90x125, looks  very good, material is 5mm stainless. I just still have to fit it, which will be a bit of a challenge as the standard bolt holes donít align with the holes on my bow. The Hanse holes are Ďall over the placeí. 

Regards,
Peter


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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: Raimondo
Date Posted: 11 April 2023 at 13:36
Dear Iain and Peter,

Thanks a lot for your infornation.

To take the final decision to buy a new anchor and replace the original Delta 16kg, I still have to understand if it's better in our case (Hanse 400) to decide for the orginal Rocna, wich fits properly on our bow if I understood correctely from Iain, or the newer Vulcan,  that Peter showed how to fit (and costs a bit more).

Advices are always welcome,
Raimondo



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400e #499 2009 "Cricca 4" ITA16254


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 11 April 2023 at 15:30
Hi Raimondo - although the Rocna does fit, the roll bar can still be a bit of a nuisance as I take the anchor off the roller when heading offshore.  If I was starting again I think I'd look at the new Sarca Excel (22kg) or the 20kg Spade.  The Excel is reputed to be better in weed.  If you're not aware of them, have a look at the superb series of tests by Steve Goodwin on YouTube.

As you're finding, if you asked 5 owners what they thought about anchors you'd get at least 10 different opinions - all strongly held.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy1Fn_m9nfcf4asEG_bulHA" rel="nofollow - (253) SV Panope - YouTube


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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: Raimondo
Date Posted: 16 April 2023 at 21:35
Hi, I'm defenitely getting a lot of good info on this issue, as for example  the longer bridle to the midships cleats (even if I hope to avoid to get the wind gusts of last summer in Sardinia).

I read about the complain of the 3mm roller, so I measured mine; but if I used correctly the caliber tool I read 5mm; is this because at Hanse the improved the roller over time (my hull is #499) ?

Peter, did you use the Mantus anchor mate at the end?

Ianin, could you explain to me why you suggest to put some links of 10mm between the anchor and the swivel and how many links do you think are necessary?
If it's about to ease the side movement of the chain with respect the anchor, the bow schackle will not be sufficient?

Thanks in advance,
Raimondo



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400e #499 2009 "Cricca 4" ITA16254


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 17 April 2023 at 06:39
Hi Raimondo - it's a common misconception, made worse by some marketing folk, that a swivel is somehow an 'anchor connector'.  It isn't; its a device to help get the anchor back on the roller the right way up and that should be its only purpose.

Anything you add to your anchoring system adds another potential point of failure; its overall strength is determined literally by its weakest link.  If you consider the design of say, a Kong swivel which is one of the best, it should be pretty obvious that its going to be much weaker with a side load than one in a straight line.  Unless the swivel can freely articulate enough to match the lateral force then its strength will be significantly reduced.  Stainless Steel is also arguably not the best material for sustained underwater use being subject to hidden crevice corrosion and sudden fracture.  These are not things you want to have added to your worry-list when anchored in a big blow.  You might be ok with a bow shackle instead but you might not, if the shackle jams which is quite possible.  I'd recommend about 3-4 links which will pretty much guarantee free movement.

The advice from those with many more miles than I have is consistent:  only use a swivel if you have found you actually need one.  

Have a look at:  https://jimmygreen.com/Anchor-Connectors/27472-23509-kong-swivel-anchor-connector-stainless-steel-aisi-316#/4590-chain_size-6mm_8mm" rel="nofollow - Kong Swivel Anchor Connector Stainless Steel AISI 316 | Kong (jimmygreen.com)  which explains things further - even if they too describe it as a 'connector'.






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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 17 April 2023 at 09:28
Here's what I mean.....




Also, every time its pulled over the bow its subject to work-hardening and hence, failure with no warning.  If you really must have one, I'd strongly suggest treating it as a disposable item and change it periodically.

Iain  


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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: Lyn
Date Posted: 17 April 2023 at 19:37
Thank you very much for sharing this and the link for more description.  On my boat, the "swivel connection" joined the anchor directly to the chain.  While contacting Rocna for advice on modifying my roller, they suggested a bow shackle to address some of the orientation issue/degrees of freedom.  As I took it apart to add one in, I was a little concerned that the one pin was so critical to holding the boat.

I've never seen the 3 extra links on any boat I've been on, but that makes so much more sense if you're not assured to always pull in the direction of your anchor set.  A short, but good read that will help me sleep better at night!


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Jon
S/V Lyn
2017 Hanse 588 | Hull 19 | Deep draft | 150hp | 220v & 110v systems | Lithium House Bank


Posted By: Martin&Rene
Date Posted: 18 April 2023 at 18:14
There have been a couple of articles in the UK magazine Yachting Monthly showing the problems of attaching the swivels direct to the anchor, as demonstrated by Ratbasher, and even using inappropriate shackles and so they have also recommended putting in a 2 or 3 links of chain between the anchor and the swivel.

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Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland


Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 14 May 2023 at 19:08


Just to close the loop on my little anchor project.

So decided to purchase off the shelve anchor rol from sailinox @ 329 Euro.

Size and function/design closed to the original Hanse setup.
Most important difference 5mm steel instead the poor 3mm Hanse choice.

The holes for the bolts didnít match the holes in the boat though.
So had 5 holes welded \shut and polished and 5 new holes drilled and countersunk (40 euros).

The first 2 holes (bottom of the anchor roll) did fit, the location of the other 5 I decided based on ensuring sufficient distance between the existing holes in the boat and enough Ďmeatí  in the aluminium plate under the bow.
Then drilled new holes and cut M8 threat (very easily, cutting in aluminium).

All 7 bolts now bite in solid aluminum (wasnít  the case for at least 1 bolt previously).

Happy with the set up now, it feels very solid (100% beter than the original wobbly setup) the Rocna Vulcan also sits solid.

I guess I could have gone for a full customized anchor rol, with a step, possibly combined with bow sprit, but this works well and was rather economic.

Ö and added a shackle between Kong and anchor, to allow for chain swing and pivoting of the Kong

Best regards,
Peter








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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: Raimondo
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 21:33
Hi Peter,

Which Kong did you buy, KGAC08-S or KGAC10-S ?
Are you happy with it?

Thanks,
Raimondo



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400e #499 2009 "Cricca 4" ITA16254


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 27 May 2023 at 08:27
....and here's why I use a snubber rigged in a bridle exiting between the bow cleats; lateral loading forces can be immense.  Imagine these being applied directly to the arms of an anchor swivel....  Note that the fair leads on any Hanse are for decoration only.

 I sympathise with the poor owner as this repair won't be cheap.  If he/she's reading this, please come say 'hi' as my boat is further down the same pontoon.

Iain








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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 27 May 2023 at 19:17
Hi raimondo,

I have item nr 644100000KK, for 8-12 mm chain.

Guess Iím happy, it hasnít hindered me while anchoring, rolls well over the sheave etc.

I guess you can only say when you you are not happy, when something failed or went wrong.

But the Kong is an extremely solid piece, looks unlikely to fail are break.

Regards,
Peter


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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 27 May 2023 at 19:32
I had a mishap with my old anchor set-up (own fault, I thought my pilot had engaged but it hadnít, then let the wheel go in a marina Pinch), it was  bent.
the upside of the low quality 3mm piece is that one can easily Bend it back.
Take it off, Put it in a vice, and with some vice grips it bends back like putty, youíll  always see where it was damaged, but it got me a couple years.

The snubber is good practice, I just find that Iíll always hear the chain grinding against the boat, as the tide turns. Because passing through the fair leads you pull the chain toward the boat. Where if you let it run over the anchor roll (i sometime do during calm nights) at least there is some distance between chain and boat.


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Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 29 May 2023 at 09:41
Hi Peter - I've not found the chain on the hull an issue as it hangs in a long, deep loop before being connected to the bridle some meters away.  This seems to help limit yawing.

Agree that you can bend the roller arm back, but as you say its only a short-term fix.  I'm looking at ways to redesign it to include a second roller for mooring lines.  A future project to help limit my kid's inheritance....


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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' now hibernating Gosport UK until April


Posted By: Raimondo
Date Posted: 07 August 2023 at 07:17
Hi all,

So finally I replaced the 16kg Delta with a new Rocna Vulcan 20kg.
To have it stable while navigating I worked on the original idea of Peter, with a friend of mine we worked on a piece of Delrin and I didn't change the original bow roller (mine is 5mm); I just made an hole to put the original pin and block the anchor.

Here is a picture:


Thanks to Peter and the others.

Raimondo


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400e #499 2009 "Cricca 4" ITA16254


Posted By: DJgun
Date Posted: 13 August 2023 at 08:49
Thanks Raymondo, 

I too replaced the Delta with 20kg Rocna Vulcan.  The bow roller support on my 2007 built 400 is 5mm thick, but clearly has different dimensions. When the anchor is raised, the original front pin (previously used to hold Delta in position, is too low to go over the anchor shank.

I will move that pin to go through the shank end eye as you have done. Then it is another small problem to solve to stop the anchor swinging.

It was very helpful to see your photographs for ideas to find a solution..

Cheers
DJ


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DJ Sailor Ordinaire
HIN DE-HANJ0331J708



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