Damask rudder
Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 341 / 342
Forum Description: 341 / 342 Hints and Tims
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13562
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 05:01
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Damask rudder
Posted By: Jojo
Subject: Damask rudder
Date Posted: 03 August 2022 at 20:57
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Hi I am the new owner of a 342 I am new to this forum Former Dufour owner, hope to be a part of this forum from now on
The damask on the rudder is broken If someone now were to obtain this part It’s the damask on the ruder tunnel Kind regards jonas straka
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Replies:
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 04 August 2022 at 15:23
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The Danish company Jefa sells them: https://jefa.dk/products/sealing-systems/" rel="nofollow - https://jefa.dk/products/sealing-systems/ . They have one version that you glue yourself so you don't have to lower the rudder. I replaced my original rudder with a rudder from Jefa at the beginning of this summer and have not yet fitted a new gaiter. I think Jefa's gaiter is too expensive so I will get some neoprane and make one myself. I would say the main reason for having a gaitor in the 342 is to stop dirt from getting to the lower bearing so I am not worried to sail without it for a while. Johan PS. Welcome to the forume by the way! The 342 is a great boat.   -------------  http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 04 August 2022 at 15:57
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I actually got a quote from Jefa for a gaiter shipped to Sweden - EUR 139. Johan ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: Jojo
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 16:58
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thanks for your help Regards jonas
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Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 17:32
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Let us know how you go about. It would be interesting for me to know as I haven't yet got around to fix it on my boat. Johan ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: Jojo
Date Posted: 12 August 2022 at 07:46
 my solution was to purchase a EPDM rubber and glue it together in a 15mm overlapping This rubber has the ability to take all the stress from movement and still holding it water tight I fill in after the long term test Best of all it’s a 20 dollar fix glue and all
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Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 14 September 2022 at 08:08
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I turns out that finding the right material for the job is a bit of a problem. I simply cannot find any fitting neoprene of EPDM sheets. I guess there will be more suitable materials around as the main purpuse of the gaiter must be to prevent dirt to get into the rudder tube and to the lower bearing. Other than that I am having fun learning how to make a flat picture of what is essentially a cone with the top cut off. I believe that I am getting the trigonometry and the calculations of corda right. I remember the "physics debates" that popped up every now and then in this forum - maybe we should try a mathematical one?  Johan ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 14 September 2022 at 09:58
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My rudder was replaced in 2014. The installer used the material for reparing inflatable bouncy castles. They just placed the piece around the shaft & GRP, Cut it to shape then glued the overlap with the glue supplied by the bouncy castle people. It is still working perfectly.It has a jubille clip to the shaft & one to the GRP part. From memory they fitted the rudder then cut & glued the seal in place. They clamped the cloth, Cut it correctly then released it. The chap who did it was able to apply the glue, push the 2 parts of the joint against the shaft to maintain pressureon on the glue for a couple of minutes then when set it formed a cone which he slid it down over the GRP & clamped in place leaving slack between the shaft fixing & the GRP clamp so the rudder could turn OK I would imagine that there would be at least one company in most sailors areas that operate bouncy castles & the like. They must have spare cloth in stock to deal with emergency punctures . A visit to one of them would soon get a piece along with the adhesive which must be a fast operating one as they do not want punctures to cause down time when operating the units on site.
------------- Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 16 September 2022 at 08:40
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That's a very useful description of the procedure and a good advice for finding a material, Samuel. I will look for inflatable castles now. Johan ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: Borjebus
Date Posted: 16 September 2022 at 10:51
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I would simply use a bit of synthetic fabric and fasten on the shaft with a cable tie, and let the fabric hang over the tunnel. Why? Because I pour water with detergent into the tunnel twice a year to get rid of barnacles. They are nasty for the lower bearing! ------------- BÄSK, Hanse 370e #82 from 2006, Yanmar 3JH4E/SD50, 3-blade Flexofold, RMC(Lewmar) 185 Bowthruster, Vulcan 9, Simrad+B&G instruments |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 11 October 2022 at 09:33
I think your point is valid. I gaitor does not have to be exactly the same as when the boat was delivered. The function is the important thing. I have sailed all summer without a gaitor at all and will evaluate. One question is how much grit will assemble on top of the lower bearing. Another, and more difficult to answer, is how high the water raises above the lower bearing into the rudder tube when sailing. Maybe in the end the gaiter is not needed at all? Johan ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Borjebus wrote:Posted By: Idratherbesailing
Date Posted: 25 February 2024 at 09:44
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Jefa do a kit to replace the gaiter. It was EUR 157 (plus import duties to the UK). I found the same material which is natural rubber from a supplier in the UK and bought a metre length of it for GBP30, enough to make 5 or 6 new gaiters. The company is https://therubbercompany.com/" rel="nofollow - https://therubbercompany.com/ - the only colour they had was pink, but no matter. It is not something they officially stock, but they were able to find some in the warehouse. It was 3mm as opposed to the original which is 2mm thick, but it seems to be fine. ------------- gpw |
Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 25 February 2024 at 14:04
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It’s funny how reading items on a forum can turn somebody into something like a boating hypochondriac… My 2007 400e never had a gaiter Had others boats with gaiter, but this one never did. The thought of installing a gaiter crossed my mind, every now and then, but then I always let the thought go again. Never had water ingress from the absence of the gaiter, after some 15.000 nm. The steering still works flawless and light. Has any owner ever experienced serious issues attributed to the absence of a gaiter, on a boat that left the Hanse wharf gaiterless ? Peter ------------- Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241 |
Posted By: coriolis2
Date Posted: 26 February 2024 at 07:42
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Hi Peter, I think your 400(e) has the same lay-out as our 350(grp), therefore we don't have the need for a gaiter as the GRP tube holding the bearings and rudderstock is fully closed from the bottom to the deck. As far as I know this is not the case with the earlier Hanses. Please correct me if I'm wrong! Regards, Rob ------------- "Coriolis" H350 #045 (ex Waarschip 570 #? 1987/1992, ex Waarschip 28LD #7 1994/2007) |
Posted By: sgrhma2
Date Posted: 26 February 2024 at 11:46
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Personally, I think it is a potential dangerous thing to do leaving the gaiter off the rudder tube and shaft. Under normal sailing conditions there will be no water ingress as for basic hull integrity the rudder tube has to extend well above the waterline. If it didn’t your boat would be uninsurable and unsafe if dependent on the gaiter for static watertight integrity. The gaiter is extremely important if you sail your boat in adverse conditions or have ever had it surfing / planning down waves. As the boat speed increases and the bow and stern wave increase, they effectively move the waterline up at the bow and the stern. Just look out the back of the boat when it’s sailing quickly how the stern has lowered into the water. As speed continues to increase and the boat starts to surf, the bow rises out of the water and the boat is increasingly being supported by dynamic lift rather than buoyant lift when in displacement mode. As dynamic lift increases the centre of lift moves aft the wetted area reduces and the up thrust from the water supporting the boat on the wetted area increases. When this is happening the water level in the tube can greatly increase because of the increase in upward pressure from dynamic thrust when surfing. The purpose of the gaiter is to stop flooding of the boat in these conditions. In my own case, I have seen the gaiter bulging when I had to retrieve a rope from the rear lock when we had intermittent surfing down waves in the North Channel between Norther Ireland and Scotland (it was a case of “it’s your boat you go get the rope, I’m not doing it in this” from the other crewmember). When getting the rope out and the boat was beginning to surf, the gaiter inflated and began to bulge. When the surf stopped the gaiter completely deflated. If the gaiter hadn’t been in position there is little doubt in my mind that the boat would definitely have been taking water when surfing. This all happened a number of years back and since the event I found on the Jefa site a video of a gaiter in surfing conditions that was showing it fully inflated and under considerable pressure. If you search the Jefa site I’m sure you will find the video. To summarise, it is in my opinion essential to have the gaiter fitted to your boat for it to be in a seaworthy condition. If you find yourself in conditions that works the gaiter, it wouldn’t take very long to have major water ingress and create a major incident. Apologies for the length of this and physics lesson at the start to help explain. Simon
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Posted By: sgrhma2
Date Posted: 26 February 2024 at 13:36
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I couldn’t find the video on the Jefa site, but the link below shows a rudder gaiter under pressure. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1afa8f061832541a&hl=en-gb&q=jefa+rudder+gaiter&tbm=vid&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7loHjjsmEAxXGUEEAHUG3CToQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=1128&bih=738&dpr=2#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:2142ccbc,vid:PMkO-BtZkQ8,st:0" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1afa8f061832541a&hl=en-gb&q=jefa+rudder+gaiter&tbm=vid&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7loHjjsmEAxXGUEEAHUG3CToQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=1128&bih=738&dpr=2#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:2142ccbc,vid:PMkO-BtZkQ8,st:0 So if you want your boat to be seaworthy one of the things you need to check is the rudder gaiter. Simon
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Posted By: perry
Date Posted: 26 February 2024 at 17:43
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Simon, I couldnt agree more with your notes on importance of the waterproof gater on the rudder shaft. In
reality I feel that when the design compromise is made not to have a
full length rudder tube, the correct solution would be to have a
waterproof bulkhead ahead of rudder shaft, so that in the event of rudder
failure, the yacht stays water tight. Perry Yacht Bloto-4 H315 [2007]
------------- Current Yacht Hanse 315 2007 Last Yacht Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017 |
Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 26 February 2024 at 20:25
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“It’s funny how reading items on a forum can turn somebody into something like a boating hypochondriac” (Peter/Rock) Well, I also have seen the video with a gaiter bulging with water, and I even at a time considered mounting a home-made one on my H400. On my boat the fibreglass part of the protection around the rudder shaft ends about 20 centimeters under the roof of the crawling space under the cockpit. But the seawater that can be pressed up has to pass the torlon bearing which in my opinion will put a stop to larger amounts of water entering the boat. I have experienced quite heavy weather in my H400, not because I´m a daredevil (my wife would soon put an end to that), but as a very senior (in age) sailor, I have very often been given weather forecasts which have not been very accurate. (To say it nicely). When sailing a H400 with a draught of 2 meters and more than 20 meters to the top of the VHF antenna, there may be restrictions on which harbours one can visit, and therefore longer passages may be called for. On my way to Borkum from Cuxhafen in 2012, I experienced a full storm in the German Bight, where both bow and stern were pressed deeply down into the seas, during 8-10 hours, but no water had entered the bilge. Later in 2015 I sailed in a convoy with 9 dutch sailors from Scheveningen towards Zeebrugge. When we passed the half-way mark NAVTEX showed a gale warning, and the 9 dutch sailors (with masts shorter than 18 meters) instantly changed course toward Roompot. I struggled on in a gale of 19 m/s that soon turned into a full storm. In the following 8 hours of roller-coaster sailing with a SOG of mostly under 3 knots, not a drop of water had entered the bilge. (I have an alarm). When we finally reached Zeebrugge, our beds were soaked, but the bilge was dry. (In this voyage I discovered, that all rules about tidal currents are void when a storm is going on ;-). This long story seems to suggest, that the missing gaiter in the H400 is not very important. It would be interesting to know, if other H370s/H400s are equipped with gaiters, and if not, if anybody ever had any problems on that account. :Kjeld ------------- Freya H400 #27 (2006),2-cabin, 40HP 3JH4E, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB) |
Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 27 February 2024 at 04:43
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Hi Kjeld Scary stories, but good your' all came through and nice that the boat is upto such weather + tidal waves. About Gaiter: There should not be a Gaiter on a 370. Perhaps earlier 341-371 would have this because of a shorter rudder shaft tube. My old 311 had a gaiter On the 370 and newer boats it is a Jefa instruction to flush freshwater through the Rudder tube/tunnel before storage every year. That would be difficult with a gaiter
------------- Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin |
Posted By: sgrhma2
Date Posted: 27 February 2024 at 09:08
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My boat is one of the very first 370s made, there may well have been changes to the rudder tube for later ones, but unless as Perry said there is a full length tube to the under side of the deck there should be a gaiter. When you have dynamic pressure, water will easily flood through the roller bearing and will do so with force, if your boat surfs this will take place, my boat starts this at around 9kn on the front of waves. Doing the yearly flush on my boat is still easy, just loosen the lower jubilee clip ease the gaiter up and pour warm soapy water in, the purpose of doing this is to remove salt and avoid salt crystals which can damage the rolls. It also minimises the risk of salt causing a corrosion line on the rudder shaft where the roller is in contact. In my opinion not fitting the gaiter is the same as ignoring brass skin fittings on the boat, if you only experience calm conditions they can last a very long time. However if you experience challenging conditions where surfing can happen they can fail due to the dynamic pressure, pressure which can also force a considerable amount of water up a rudder tube. You’ve seen the video of the gaiter under pressure, I’ve seen it on my own boat. For those of you who decide not to fit it I hope all your bets come up trumps and you don’t experience conditions where you come close to or surf. Also gaiters are not a decorative thing and are unseen by most, manufacturers will only fit them because they are needed. If they weren’t needed they wouldn’t incur the cost of fitting them. Make your choices, but if you decide not to and it goes wrong, don’t blame anybody but yourself. Hope this is useful Simon
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Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 27 February 2024 at 18:59
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In the old days this forum saw the occasional heated "physics debate". I enjoyed to participate immensely even if it not was only apparent to others but also myself that I did not have the education required. As far as I recall one of the debates was about water draining from the sinks and why it was so slow. I think the rudder tube is an inverted problem. The Jefa video is scary but I don't think it portrays any situation that would occur with our boats. It seems more meant to show how strong the Jefa gaiter is. I would rely more on Simon's experience when getting the rope. I don't know what to make of it though. Could water actually get into the boat if the speed through the water is high enough? Is the gaiter there to prevent that? I am puzzled. Johan  ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: PekkaL
Date Posted: 28 February 2024 at 11:02
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H371: I had a smallish hole (≈1 x 1/2 cm) due to chafe in my damask. This resulted some water spray, maybe a couple liters or so during the season. Certainly a larger hole would have brought in more water. In 371s the the damask is there for a good reason. Keep too loosely tied jerry cans and other cargo from rubbing against the rudder post! ------------- Pekka Leppanen, "Vedette" |
Posted By: gshannon
Date Posted: 04 May 2024 at 15:29
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I replaced the gaiter oin my 371 by going to a Dive shop and buying wetsuit material. They also had the correct glue. It was an easy job, not expensive, and has now outlasted the priginal. The boat is 22 years old now and only replaced it once. ------------- Grahame Tangleberry 371-092 aviadesign.com |