Lithium batteries
Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 460
Forum Description: Model Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14083
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 03:42
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Lithium batteries
Posted By: ariette
Subject: Lithium batteries
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 12:35
|
Hi. Has anyone taken delivery of a 460 with factory supplied Lithium batteries? If so can they share some initial thoughts. ------------- Hanse 460. 'Lyra' |
Replies:
Posted By: Sahinsair
Date Posted: 26 August 2023 at 11:57
|
I have intended and changed my mind. The dealler couldnt sy the brand of the litium batterys. I would preffer to speaks all battery's and controller systems. For that reason i didn't ortdered inverter as well. I was thinking to put Victron inverter and mppt, charge controller etc. I have chosen to buy jeneratör with that money. Then after I will put victron equipment. The factory doesnt put this brand. |
Posted By: kemalgunduz
Date Posted: 27 August 2023 at 16:26
| As far as I know, the factory uses Lifos brand for LiFePo4 batteries. This is seen on their online spare part shop http://www.hanseboatonn.com" rel="nofollow - www.hanseboatonn.com . The RRP on the site is around 2200 Euros including VAT. However if you check by German chandlery http://www.svb24.com" rel="nofollow - www.svb24.com you will see that the same Lifos battery is ex VAT something around 760 Euros |
Posted By: kemalgunduz
Date Posted: 27 August 2023 at 16:28
| Lifos has been chosen as a good LiFePo4 type of battery by an English caravan and boat magazine in terms of price / quality ratio |
Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 27 August 2023 at 17:00
|
Renogy 100Ah is 399 euro. https://eu.renogy.com/12v-100ah-smart-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery/" rel="nofollow - https://eu.renogy.com/12v-100ah-smart-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery/ ------------- Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin |
Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 31 August 2023 at 15:16
|
Here is another brand that I would consider if I did not already have lifepo4. https://www.litime.de/" rel="nofollow - https://www.litime.de/ Youtube review: https://youtu.be/tAaThjkazkM" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/tAaThjkazkM ------------- Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin |
Posted By: Arcadia
Date Posted: 01 September 2023 at 02:05
|
I have 1500 amp hours of Litime LFP batteries and can recommend them highly. They have surpassed my expectations and factory service and attention is top notch. They have a very comprehensive BMS on board which manages everything needed for charging and discharging. So much so that they are a drop in replacement for AGM with no changes to charging systems. ------------- Leon / ARCADIA 2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY |
Posted By: Darek
Date Posted: 16 January 2024 at 16:52
|
hallo everyone, what should be the voltage of fully charged lithium battery? I just joined with my new H460 and i have lifos lithium battery bank with inverter/charger from MasterVolt. This setup is original from shipyard. Lithium batteries are new to me. I can see 13.2V and it looks to me 70-80%. I requested the dealer to investigate. ------------- Darek "Summertime" Hanse 460 #92 |
Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 16 January 2024 at 22:10
|
Table of LiFePO4 voltage v SOC. Might help you. Note these are resting voltages, not charge voltages. Not clear what you are having investigated. You are about spot on with your 70-80% logic. Note that SOC readings can bee wildly unreliable with the batteries. Go by the resting voltage. Mark  ------------- Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31 |
Posted By: Darek
Date Posted: 17 January 2024 at 07:43
|
Thanks Mark, interesting.. 100% is between 13.6V and 14.4V. yes, I use resting voltage displayed on the DC Panel. The whole confusion is around the reading from MasterVolt CombiMaster (12V/3000VA-100A) which shows 100% SOC and in the same time I see 13.2V. I will do some tests in coming days together with the dealer. Mark, one more question regarding the table you posted... is it for any LiFePO4 battery brand? I'm wondering why Lifos (manufacturer) didn't include it in technical specs. ------------- Darek "Summertime" Hanse 460 #92 |
Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 17 January 2024 at 11:30
|
That’s a generic table for LiFePO4. On batteries with Eve cells from LifeBatteries.co.uk and batteries from Fogstar.com (can’t remember the cell make) it maps very well. If the issue you are having is the mapping between SOC and voltage, then I’d politely suggest it’s not really an issue. The SOC value is often wildly inaccurate. Even for 2 batteries in parallel, the 2 BMS will regularly show different SOC values due to very minor differences in resistance, cell matching and over-volts point. Any monitoring you have of the bank will struggle even further. Rely on the voltages at the BMS level. If you are used to LA batteries, it can genuinely feel a bit weird. Your sense of the ‘right voltage’ v capacity will be way off as tiny differences in cell voltage make a huge difference in how near full the battery is. Takes a little getting used to :) Btw in my case, for battery longevity, I have BMS battery max volts cut-off at 14v so I deliberately leave a % or 2 off the top end of the battery. I still see 100% on battery SOC. The algorithms are really not that clever in practice. Mark ------------- Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31 |
Posted By: ariette
Date Posted: 17 January 2024 at 15:53
|
Dates Congratulations on your new boat, mine is on its way also with your lithium setup. Question for you can you set the BMS at say 14v (as above) using the Mastervolt charger or do you need to do it at the Lifos level using their Bluetooth controls. ( There is some active chatter about how reliable Bluetooth is for this sort of control). Thanks. Mark
|
Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 17 January 2024 at 19:26
|
Ariette - this is all my learnings. Like all things internet you’ll find plenty of range in the opinions! However, I’ve used this logic in the real world and been delighted with my LiFePO4 solution. You manage LiFePO4s at the BMS level ideally. Most have the BMS onboard the battery, some like Victron have a separate BMS but the logic is still the same. Low & high volts cut-offs and other Control parameters are managed in the BMS. That said, not all batteries have a fully adjustable BMS. In that case the workaround is to have the control logic in the charging circuit. However the downside is then you need to mirror that across all charge sources (alternator, solar, wind, hydro etc). Hence why you want control in the BMS. The charge side can actually be pretty dumb. Just provide 14.4v bulk and 13.5-13.6 float. Absorb is irrelevant. Mark ------------- Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31 |
Posted By: Darek
Date Posted: 17 January 2024 at 20:33
this is really good valuable discussion, thanks guys  I must admit I'm overwhelmed with your knowledge. So far I didn't touch any settings in MasterVolt and the app to access BMS in individual batteries from Lifos (manufacturer) is readOnly to my knowledge. So I don't know how to change any settings yet and I assumed the factory settings are optimal. I was also told there are different charging sources (with separate hardware circles) like MasterVolt and alternator...and Mark rightly added solar, wind, etc... In that case it would make sense to have a good charging setup on BMS level. And I hope I will be able to do it. So far my dealer is still busy with investigation regarding the 13.2V - is my service battery fully charged with this voltage? or is it 70% SOC? ------------- Darek "Summertime" Hanse 460 #92 |
Posted By: Yoda
Date Posted: 17 January 2024 at 21:06
|
After several seasons of using LiFePo4 batteries that I have built myself I have found the only real indicator of SOC is from a decent Battery Monitor such as the Victron BM702 that uses a good quality shunt. The flat charging curve makes the relationship between voltage and state of charge very unreliable over the majority of the capacity range. Only at the very top and bottom of the curve does voltage start to indicate more accurately where the SOC is - the very place you don't really want to be with the battery. |
Posted By: Darek
Date Posted: 22 January 2024 at 09:17
|
I have results of recent tests: 2 batteries out of 6 are broken, they show 7V and 8.5V respectively. We disconnected them from the bank. It is also worth to mention that we couldn't connect to theirs BMSs via Lifos app, so they are definitely broken. The remaining 4 batteries seem to work fine and their BMSs report 99% SOC with 13.24V as an example. We continue testing them but the initial conclusion is that the low voltage around 13.2V is a normal voltage for Lifos batteries for 100% SOC. Another finding is that 6 batteries are connected together and Lifos allows to connect up to max 4, as per technical specifications. The dealer will request Hanse to provide official statement that installed setup is ok and doesn't have impact on 5 years warranty from Lifos. We will also claim the 2 faulty batteries ------------- Darek "Summertime" Hanse 460 #92 |
Posted By: ariette
Date Posted: 12 April 2024 at 17:51
| Has anyone else had similar issues to Darek with the factory installed LIFOs lithium setup. I have the same system but the boat is still sitting in Germany awaiting snagging so I have no info on my system. I assume the 510 and 410 have the same setup. Thanks |
Posted By: SRL
Date Posted: 13 April 2024 at 18:40
|
We took delivery of our 460 in June 2023 and have remarkably similar issues with the LIFOS 6 x 105ah batteries as Darek. After being disconnected from shore power for about 3 weeks, with everything switched off (except Sentinel) and the yacht not used, I get a low service battery message from Sentinel. Sometimes this is followed by a shut down of Sentinel and on other  occasions it has resulted in the overall service battery voltage showing in the region of 6V. One of my batteries is now not working. It is unclear whether it is faulty or the integral Battery Management System has put it to a kind of sleep mode. My Dealer has not advised me of the fundamental cause of the problem which needs further technical investigation by Hanse/subcontractors and therefore await a solution. I believe that it is not just an unlucky defective battery but the issue lies deeper in either the system design, the installation by Hanse or incompatibility of installed electrical components. Beware that a yacht which is frequently used or kept on shore power may not present these issues whilst one or more batteries may have unknowingly become inoperable. As you have not yet taken delivery you would do well to ask Hanse for their position on the matter as I think this has some way to run until the fundamental cause of these unsatisfactory failures are uncovered and a solution evolves. Apart from the above, the 460 is a joy to sail and we are very pleased with our yacht overall. |
Posted By: SRL
Date Posted: 14 April 2024 at 09:35
| Ariette, I posted yesterday concerning problems similar to Darek but omitted to use the ‘Reply’ to your post……. |
Posted By: ariette
Date Posted: 14 April 2024 at 09:39
|
Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I will chase my dealer and Hanse for a response to this problem. Have you tried approaching LIFOs for their views? Regards Mark
|
Posted By: Darek
Date Posted: 16 April 2024 at 07:03
|
Hi Mark, Lifos (Solar Technology) stresses the fact that cables connected to each battery should have the same length, and this is also visible in the electrical documentation. In my 460 this is not the case. And this leads to uneven charge/discharge. Darek ------------- Darek "Summertime" Hanse 460 #92 |
Posted By: SRL
Date Posted: 16 April 2024 at 16:14
|
Hi Mark My dealer is in contact with Solar Technology (LIFOS) with the same response that Darek has responded to you. The matter is very much ongoing. |
Posted By: ariette
Date Posted: 25 April 2024 at 17:01
| I have had the same conversation with LIFOs and their story is consistent with yours. Hanse do not appear to have taken any notice of this problem. I have asked my dealer to escalate this before delivery. |
Posted By: Arcadia
Date Posted: 25 April 2024 at 17:06
|
I would not go for the Hanse LIPO option. Take delivery with the standard set up and do your own after market installation. It will be cheaper and much better. I did my own 1600 amp hr install for about $3000 US. Working like a charm 3 years in with unlimited power. Easier than you may think. ------------- Leon / ARCADIA 2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY |
Posted By: Keakaka
Date Posted: 25 April 2024 at 23:12
|
We have Hanse 460 delivered August 2023 with factory AGM batteries. We have upgraded to full Victron system with 3 x 160 Ah AGM, Balmar Alternator and Regulator, 600w solar. Was expensive US$7500 but we rarely go below 80% SOC and full charge is achieved by 11.00am each day from solar alone. My previous Hanse 388 is on its third set of batteries in 4 years using the factory set up- mostly under warranty. That factory set up is not up to capacity for cruising away from shore power recharging and the recharging from just the engine is not enough so the batteries fail. Make sure you have charging capacity as well as battery capacity as the standard alternator will not cope. ------------- This is not a rehearsal. Go for it. Kiakaha |
Posted By: DCJ
Date Posted: 05 May 2024 at 10:57
Apparently Hanse and LIFOS are in discussions, with a busbar solution. ------------- Colin |