Since the day one I got my 588 in 2020 summer, I noticed that the steering was too heavy and in some conditions the forces got so high that the autopilot drive was unable to turn the rudder. This resulted in "No Rudder Response" caution due to the fact that the autopilot computer "asked" the drive to turn the rudder to keep the heading but the forces were too high and the rudder was not moving. This resulted in a sudden and unpredictable disengagement of the autopilot which was an unsafe feature and also a clear design deficiency of the steering system. At the time when the autopilot disengaged the steering forces at the wheel were very high and a lot of power was needed to even manually steer the boat. After checking thoroughly the steering system and rudder (and reading this forum...) I got to understand that the reason for the high forces is in the undersized gearboxes which could be considered as a root cause for the autopilot issues also - although it must be mentioned that the Lewmar drive seemed to be undersized as well...but the forces were just too high for comfortable manual steering.

I tried to get answers and solutions to this serious deficiency for the whole warranty period without any sensible replies from the dealer or factory. As you all might know it is impossible to get any kind of customer service from the factory - actually it is impossible to get even any point of contact at factory to consult about possible issues.   

As the safety is the number one priority for me I decided to replace the critical parts of  Lewmar steering system with the Jefa ones which is to my understanding the system which has been used already in 575 and the latest 588. I have test sailed this summer the system and so far I am very pleased with the performance of the autopilot as well as much lower steering forces when manually steering the boat. 

The costs for the following parts & freight were approximately 9500 euros (ex. VAT).

Mikko

Conclusion: If you really want to install on your initative the lewmar mamba just check the unit manual: it is clearly designed for smaller boats with the major piece made in plastic, even warranty won't apply! 

FYI: with the help/guidance from Arcadia, i had just replaced the lewmar drive unit with the jefa drive unit - not the chain and not the gearboxes. it implied some drilling and a spacer, but nothing "rocket science" or unreasonable. 

My suggestion: simply, don't do this mistake!

Fwiw,

Piero

Jefa was gentle enough to ship it directly to my boat...

If you want an email,  just let me know and I can pm it to you.

I and my crew have also noticed heavy steering when the wind builds which is tiring after a while and I don’t have confidence that the autopilot will cope in anything over 15k wind - it seems to round up and let go. 

We are planning a circumnavigation next year and was considering how to fix the issue - is the autopilot set up wrong or something more expensive? Reading your posts gives me food for thought.

My hull is #28 - one of the earlier boats from 2017.

Pete

I also don't want to make any formal public statement, but when I crossed the Atlantic with the ARC on december 1st 2021 another 588, Charlotte Jane III,  was abandoned after a steering problem. It was mentioned a possible whale hit by the press, but (see this forum) I've seen the hull with my own eyes when it was recovered in Rodney bay... the issue was inside the quadrant. 

Fyi: Arcadia has installed one jefa autopilot and one hydraulic ram, so the boat actually has two almost independent autopilots. This may be the best solution overall.... you may ask more information directly to Leon.

Essentially, I think that the mamba drive is installed in the wrong direction (it should be rotatedby 90 degrees),  and it's not designed anyway to stand the normal forces that the rudder will apply onto it. It's both a matter of gear factor and materials,  being the flange holding the autopilot in plastic. The deformation of the plastic flange can result in a chain block, inducing significant stress on the quadrant and possible failure of the gearboxes and the  two rods connecting to the rudder. 

Charlotte jane III, in informal communications with the ARC organisers, had both rudder rods bent and damaged. 

When I was communicated of their failure, I inspected the system and realised my chain had become suddenly very loose. Despite our precautions,  after some hours the gears started "skipping" on the chain,  and I invented a chain tensioner with some scrap material to keep the chain in place up to arrival. When we arrived, the second autopilot drive (the first one broke reaching the canaries) had been compromised, and the flange irreparably failed some weeks later in normal sea despite I had retensioned the chain.

All 4x autopilots had the same failure mode: flange broken, chain that gets damaged and potentially gets stuck.

I want to testimony all this with clarity because I would otherwise feel responsible towards those owners that may go offshore and find themselves in serious troubles. 

I never had any replies or assistance from Hanse despite the multiple contacts. Lewmar claimed indirectly through their distributor that the drive works correctly in other boats installations, so it's not their fault as supplier of a component.

If you don't replace it and you leave for a long trip, prepare yourself for an autopilot failure. 

I wpuld argue you should build an emergency tiller for secondary damages to the quadrant. Charlotte Jane was recovered by a  professional rescue team that was transported on the abandoned boat in the middle of the Atlantic (it had the arc yb tracker that had been put in private mode), the dinghy was released,  and the emergency tiller used as in any other boat. I've seen it myself with my own eyes in Rodney bay when the boat arrived, and the boat reached Rodney bay at normal cruising speed...

Leon, are you happy of your double autopilot installation? Is he ram absorbing more electrical power than the jefa?  Which of the two performs better?

Hi - thanks for your message - hoping you can access the image below? 

You will see that there are two stickers on the connecting rod, the one that is coming off the bar has the serial number - 89500211 and the other has A17-679490. 

I have looked these up online but no results - they are both Lewmar serial numbers. 

I cannot see one on the drive unit so suggest the one coming off has been stuck on the bar so you can see it?  Any help would be greatly appreciated. P

uploads/8473/image1.pdf" rel="nofollow - uploads/8473/image1.pdf

As you wrote, it has been very frustrating to see that Hanse has not taken this faulty design of the steering system seriously although it is an obvious safety issue. This is showing poor safety culture; making mistakes is human but organization should be able to admit mistakes and fix them and learn from them.

I made a written claim about all deficiencies after the first sailing season (of which the steering issue was the most critical...and one other issue still pending) without any sensible solutions for fixing this steering issue. The way how Hanse is handling customer service is based on the dealers actions and activity; if the factory is not supporting dealers, and the dealers are not able to find solutions, then you are alone with your list of the issues. Fortunately I have had professionals available in the local shipyard who have been able to fix things but that is not happening free of charge. After the first season they e.g. disassembled the whole steering system to see if there is something wrong with the rudder or some other parts which makes the steering so heavy. Then last spring they installed the Jefa parts which can be seen in the following drawing;

Definitely the Lewmar steering is not suitable for this size of a boat. I lost my trust in this system on the first day I was sailing the boat out of the dealers harbor in Germany in summer 2020; I got tens of times "No Rudder Response" caution and at the same time I was manually struggling with the steering forces. 

As said so far I have been very satisfied with the Jefa steering system. It is very expensive installation and nobody should be in the position to replace it at your own cost. However, you need to be able to trust such a primary system than steering in your boat. 

The circled black motor (called the Mamba), I believe is where Piero had his primary troubles.  The housing is plastic and not mounted on the most sturdy of surfaces.  If the mounting cracks, there's no more drive.  This, I understand Piero's message, is what he replaced and had to adapt the mounting.  This drive motor turns the small section of chain that then goes to the gear reduction units.  These units take a rotational force and then both amplifies it and translates the rotational action to a lever action.  I think there are also views, supported by design limits, that the gear reduction units may be undersized for the vessel.  The rudder feedback unit, connected via the draglink, is along for the ride and is how the autopilot computer knows the rudder position.

As a second consequence, you need to put a longer chain,  I got mine directly from jefa. 

Indeed,  I didn't change the lewmar gearboxes nor the pushing rods. I check them regularly for play,  and they seem to work decently even if I believe that the jefa gearboxes may be smoother.

However, my steering wheels became much lighter anyway: the reason is that the mamba has an electromagnetic clutch before the reducer gear inside the motor,  while the jefa clutch pushes/ extracts a pin AFTER the motor reducer. The logic is different: if the autopilot  computer disengages when there is a load applied onto the motor,  the boat will continue straight with the jefa and start spinning super fast with the lewmar!!! If you're in jibing conditions,  the behaviour of the lewmar is obviously dangerous....

One final comment: the quadrant support is the L- shaped aluminum base on which all components are attached to: gearboxes,  autopilot, cables from the steering wheels and rods connected to the rudder. 

As a consequence, everything works IF AND ONLY IF the quadrant support doesn't move with respect to the boat. There is no built-in redundancy if the quadrant support moves!

It happens  it's fixed by some bolts going down into the hull and,  surprisingly, to the wooden frame that sits behind the rooms. So,  if the bolts are not well tight,  you may start hearing the wood cracking when the autopilot is operating ( and admittedly also when you steer the boat by hand and the rudder reacts with significant force). 

It is extremely important you check periodically the bolts,  both on the hull and the wooden séparation. I've found that they can get loose quite easily,  Subject to large forces, and if the quadrant support will detach your can forget about rudder control (by hand and by autopilot) in any design: jefa,  mamba, ram, steering wheels will stop working!

Unfortunately,  accessing those screws implies having the right keys, a lot of patience,  calm seas or even better being at harbour. It's not something that can be done easily in bad weather conditions,  so make sure your check them at least every year and I would argue before any oceanic crossing. This is the real heart of the boat, second only to the boat floating, the rest is "nice to have"...

If the quadrant support will dislocate, the only plan I can imagine is detaching the rods from the rudder,  eventually sawing the flaps on the rudder itself if the bars would be deformed and blocking the rudder movement,  and use the emergency tiller as commented above...

For the record,  I also discussed with two companies the idea of using wind vanes: to make the story short,  you would need at least two in easy conditions and,  if the rudder would be blocked in a position different from perfectly central,  forget about overcoming it...

Leon ro get a bit more detail before I embark on changing things.

Thanks 

P

I have been in touch with Jefa - they are very helpful and fully aware of the 588 steering issues. The cost of the full replacement parts is about €9,500 + VAT - the same as Mikko on Arcadia paid, Jefa has held their prices. About 6-7 week manufacture and delivery time. Only 2 weeks if you go for the drive only.

I’m trying to decide whether to go with just a drive or replacement of full system.

Also been talking to Hyrovane regarding their wind vane. Could get away with 1 but would be better with 2 - I like the idea of backup steering.(However, if the main rudder jammed at an angle it would still be a problem.) 

Good to hear you are also considering a circumnavigation. We are booked onto the ARC for November 2025 - need to get the steering system sorted………

Pete

I noticed that there is no backing plate on the cabin side of the bulkhead and they maybe wearing there way through the wood causing the loosening. Aluminium backing plates will be fitted both sides.

I also noticed a clunking resistance in the wheel around 24 and 35 + degrees to port from centre. It is better now but still there. Coming from the chain/sprocket on the mamba. The mamba drive chain feels a little loose - does anyone know how much play there should be when the the system is idle and how do you tighten it? There does seem to be a slot in the fixing positions of the mamba to move it sideways slightly!

Thanks

Pete

... and check the bolts regularly!  Not only there are slots to tension the mamba,  but there is also a tensioner sitting on the port side to tune the tension with a screw. Don't leave the chain too loose otherwise the chain will start skipping (the problem you have when the mamba plastic flange deforms, before it breaks),  and not too hard to avoid stress that could break the chain. I used to leave more or less 10mm vertical movement in the middle of the chain,  from the lowest position to the highest position. The difference is that with the mamba it gets loose very rapidly,  because of the plastic flange déformation,  while with the jefa  didn't change over 2 years...

Check it after you've tensioned the bolts on the mamba,  usually it gets harder after everything has been tightened...

Whilst the steering feels a little tighter I still have the notchiness ( it is quite severe) when turning to port. Feels like possibly some deformed teeth in either a gearbox or the mamba.

Will slacken the chain on the mamba so that I can disconnect it and see if the notchiness is still there. If it is it is a gearbox, if not it will be the mamba.

All this is leading me to changing the steering to Jefa.

Hanse did change the steering system from 575 to 588 model ?

And the new system is worst that the older ?

On my 575 I had issues with the bolts in the center of the garage.

Often I found them loose and / or broken.

I changed the bolts with longer and stronger type and added nuts with locking teflon ring.

This improved the situation but still I have to check them regularly.

About the autopilot I have to say that it works rather good.

Under sail the helm becomes ofter very heavy.

This because the boat is always very griping.

In this situations I simply do not engage the autopilot.

As I understood reading your posts, also the 588 has this griping issue.

Can you confirm this ?

Strange that Hanse did not correct this tendence,

at least with the newer 588..

The first 35-40 588s were built with Lewmar steering parts including gear boxes and autopilot drive. The later boats were changed back to a Jefa system.

There have been some issues with the Lewmar system, mainly the Mamba autopilot failing but also the gearboxes potentially being under sized. 

My boat is hull 28 and has the Lewmar system - the autopilot has failed - too much load and the bearings have failed due to potential distortion in the composite mamba structure. Lewmar now make a metal version to stop this.

I have ordered a complete new Jefa system including autopilot drive as I am planning a circumnavigation starting this year - I want to ensure I don’t have any further failure.

The issue of the fixing bolts to the structure that holds the gearboxes and drive becoming loose also happens on a 588. They need to be checked regularly. Nylock nuts would definitely help and I will fit the new system with these when it arrives. 

The 588 and 575 hulls are very similar and the steering on my boat with Lewmar steering is heavy when loaded - particularly if the main hasn’t been reefed early and the Lewmar mamba autopilot cannot cope with the loads. I am informed this is more manageable with the Jefa system fitted, the autopilot works on a different basis - I will find out once the new parts are fitted!!

Have a great season.

P

happy new year !!

thank you for the kind and interesting explanation.

I admit of being not very positive and kind with Hanse, I had many problems on my Hanse 575 and I had to fix them all by myself.

Having said that it is interesting to know that they changed for bad something that was running reasonably well.

Because of the garage the rudder blade has a short shaft and the upper and lower bearings are very close to each other.

This creates a very high stress on the bearings and on the bearings housing. (my previous boat, with no garage, had about 2,5 meters distance between bearings)

because of this reason the steering system on 575 and 588 yachts has to be engineered very well to avoid issues.

I think that the now common double rudder boats are a better solution in case of big garages.

Do you confirm that also the 588 are still much griping under sail with medium to strong wind when sailing close hauled ?

Marco

You are right that the rudder stock is quite short due to the garage. I think the new 590 also has one rudder. 

Pete

I never could find a good sail settings in order to have a nice balance of the boat and a neutral helm.

After the first year I never used the self tacking jib, only Genoa.

My opinion is that the sail center of the H575 is not correct and this create the often heavy rudder.

F.I. the longitudinal position of the keel center vs the mast..

As Hanse did some minor modification to the sail plan, higher and different mast (Selden vs France Spar), I wonder if the newer hulls are improved.

As everyone knows a heavy helm means less speed.

This because of the extra work needed from the rudder, several vortex along the rudder edge create negative drags.

And of course much more power needed from the Autopilot motor.

On my boat the wheel is often between 70º and 90º to bear away downwind. 

Let’s see how we do next season, we plan on sailing from the uk to the canaries in readiness for the ARC next November.