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460, rudder shakes

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 460
Forum Description: Model Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14845
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 01:44
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: 460, rudder shakes

Posted By: LarsE460
Subject: 460, rudder shakes
Date Posted: 30 September 2024 at 17:24

I have a 460 from june 2024, shallow keel, 3 blade fold. prop.

I experience significant rudder shakes in the steering wheels especially from twa 70 and further downwind and from sog 6 knots and faster. Beyond sog 8-9 knots it is so significant that passengers also feel shakings in the cockpit seats! The steering wheels are constantly moving 4-6 mm left/right. Hanse claim it is normal for many types of Hanse boats to feel these shakings due to the water flow around the rudder and therefore they are not willing to help. I am both very surprised and disappointed with their claim.

Do you have any similar experience?

Replies:

Posted By: mr-ludi
Date Posted: 30 September 2024 at 18:40

My 460 is from May and I‘ve got rudder shakes too. It also doesn‘t feel normal to me.

I haven‘t noticed that there is any connection to TWA, but it starts at higher SOG.

Posted By: LarsE460
Date Posted: 30 September 2024 at 19:07

Have you approached Hanse with your problem?

What keel and prop do you have?

It is clearly not normal in my boat!

Posted By: mr-ludi
Date Posted: 30 September 2024 at 19:28

I have the shallow keel and 80hp with three blade prop.

I don‘t remember having any vibration by sailing.

But I had vibration/shakes by cruising with motor and doing stronger curves.

Haven’t talked about it with my dealer yet.

Posted By: Arcadia
Date Posted: 01 October 2024 at 15:29

Possibly a result of the twin rudder set up. When healed, they’ll have two very different angles to the flow. Maybe an adjustment to the relative angle between them will solve it. There is an optimal angle that needs to be achieved for optimum efficiency at all angles of heal. This would be done at the steering cables and linkage.

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Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588
Sag Harbor, NY

Posted By: mr-ludi
Date Posted: 01 October 2024 at 15:40

460 has a single rudder ;-)

Posted By: Arcadia
Date Posted: 01 October 2024 at 15:48

I see. I guess we can ignore my last post !

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Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588
Sag Harbor, NY

Posted By: Axel1009
Date Posted: 09 October 2024 at 06:16

Same here, got our H460 handed over early October and we experience strong rudder shakes starting ant 1200rpm and from 2400rpm upwards the boat turns to starboard heavily. I have engaged a naval architect for a deficiency survey and it got classified as critical problem to be fixed before leaving port. Now waiting for reply from dealer.

Posted By: mr-ludi
Date Posted: 09 October 2024 at 11:23

I have no problems turning to any side. But the vibrations/shakes aren't feeling good.

@LarsE460: Do you have any news?

Posted By: angorsan
Date Posted: 09 October 2024 at 14:25

Hi Axel,

What is you prop (fixed/folding) and keel (full/shallow) setup?

WBR,

A.G.

Posted By: Axel1009
Date Posted: 09 October 2024 at 15:27

Hi @angorsan,

Got a folding 3 blade prop and the full keel. I have posted some of the surveyor observations in another new topic. Some of the thoughts from the surveyor who is a naval architect are that the bearings are not sitting perfectly. I have been diving down to see if the ruder has any play, but under water it is very hard to determine if that the case and I couldn't feel any play in the rudder nor could observe anything at higher rpm on the shaft from inside...

Posted By: LarsE460
Date Posted: 10 October 2024 at 05:50

I guess some vibrations should be expected when sailing for motor. But also under sails I am as mentioned having rudder shakes and Hanse will not admit this nor will they do anything about it, so no news (so far).

Posted By: mr-ludi
Date Posted: 10 October 2024 at 11:59

Do you have any idea about the reason for the rudder shakes or how to solve it?

Posted By: Sailingjack
Date Posted: 10 October 2024 at 13:16

Could the vibration be rudder blade trailing edge flow separation? Is it a Jefa rudder with NACA profile? If the trailing edge is symmetric, flow separation may create a vortex, oscillating behind the profile. One solution is to skew the trailing edge ie. make it asymmetric.

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Hanse 400#803 s/y Saara

Posted By: 460AUS
Date Posted: 20 October 2024 at 00:33

Hi All,

I sent the Axel post to my local Hanse dealer and they responded:

There will always be cavitation under motor due to the sail drive being in front of the rudder.

This is certainly not a “Critical Fault”. Rest assured it is normal when the yacht is under motor.

The implication is that if you are experiencing the rudder shakes under sail there is a problem, perhaps a design one?

Is there any update from Hanse/your local distributor?

Posted By: 415 Singapore
Date Posted: 20 October 2024 at 07:33

Hi, I think the implication is that I am incredibly lucky not to have suffered from these ‘perfectly normal’ vibrations on any of the single rudder sail drive fitted boats I have owned!

Have you talked to Jefa?

Good luck

Paul

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Paul - Night Train - 415 #136

Posted By: Arcadia
Date Posted: 20 October 2024 at 15:37

Yes, if Jefa made the rudders as they have for many years then they would and should have something to say about it.

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Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588
Sag Harbor, NY

Posted By: Axel1009
Date Posted: 23 October 2024 at 06:04

Interesting turn of events with my Hanse dealer and the boatyard engineers here. Been through a whole boat review with all issues and while in the past days my dealer denied the rudder shaking to be an issue, he now agreed this is an issue since the engineer from the yard said it's absolutely not normal. A few things will happen now: boatyard will reach out to Jefa and ask if any known issues or changes have been throughout the deliveries of the H460 to the rudder. In addition the dealer will reach out to other H460 owners to check if they have the same issue with earlier deliveries.

Another thing we will check is if the sail drive might sit slightly off center, which would explain my boat turning hard to starboard.

The boatyard engineer is convinced this is abnormal and an issues to be resolved - same as the naval architect that did the survey for me. I'll update on progress and outcomes.

Posted By: 460AUS
Date Posted: 23 October 2024 at 07:22

Thanks Axel, your update is much appreciated.

I look forward to hearing about the next steps.

Cheers J

Posted By: mr-ludi
Date Posted: 23 October 2024 at 08:05

It sounds interesting.

Do you want to have my contact details via PM, to make it possible for your dealer to contact me as another owner with this issue?

Please keep us updated.

Posted By: Axel1009
Date Posted: 24 October 2024 at 02:18

Jefa replied on the issues and says due to the perfect symmetry the shaking can be an issue. Need to bevel the trailing edge and they suggest it will solve it. Will have the yard do that and see if it helps....

Posted By: mr-ludi
Date Posted: 02 November 2024 at 07:55

Axel, any news from the boatyard?

Posted By: Axel1009
Date Posted: 02 November 2024 at 13:59

Hi - no progress on the issue. The boat yard is currently preparing a plan to resolve the list of issues and when / how to fix.

Posted By: jtjk
Date Posted: 14 June 2025 at 13:02

Hi,

I chartered X4^3 previous week with Jefa mechanics and it was shaking a lot with engine. From that perspective, I quess it is a feature.

Br,

Janne

Posted By: Axel1009
Date Posted: 14 June 2025 at 13:43

I haven't updated this - apparently the dealer and another boatyard have "declared" it to be normal.... since I got really tired about Hanse and especially my Hanse dealer, it's a feature now...