I have the upgraded Volvo Penta 2040 engine with the standard non folding prop.  My engine manual states that I should not have the boat in gear while sailing and when the motor is not in use.

When I am sailing with decent speed, I get vibration from the prop spinning since it is in neutral and not locked in place by being in gear.   The vibration stops when I put the boat in gear.

Anyone know why the Volvo manual says not to do this?   Others have this issue?

One other unrelated question.   While sailing this weekend, something fell from somwhere high on the standing rigging.  Not sure exactly where it came from or what it was.   I happened to be below deck when it fell, but I was told that it appeared to be a very thin silver or white metal/aluminum strip, about 2-3 feet long.   About an inch or two wide and as thin as a credit card.   It bounced off the deck into the water and sunk.  While I have not yet taken a ride up the mast in my bosuns chair to explore, I cannot figure out what it was or where it came from.  Any ideas?

Thanks.  Jon

Hi Jon,

The strip...... maybe you have lost the furling "batten" of your headsail. This is mostly a alloysteel thin plate which is used so you can furl the headsail. I lost one the same way... Check you sail"batten"bags.

And for the vibration...indeed with my old Hanse (292) I had the same problem. I put my gear in place. Good luck....or chance your prop into a nice folding one

Happy sailing!

Frank - Eternal Flame

Jon,

at my last ship I had a MD 2020 Volvo engine. I remember to read exactly the opposite in the manual. While sailing the gear has to put in. I often forgot to do that and so I know the noise.

By the way, in my Hanse there is installed the new Yanmar 3YM30. When I forget to gear while sailing I have the same noise. After put in the gear, (now) the prop folds and its wonderful quiet.

The other issue: As my last ship was new, some day I heard a "pling" whilst sailing. On deck I found a small metal thing. I was concerned and asked another boat owner. He laughed and told me that it was the back-pin of a rivet.

You wrote, your lost thing was 2-3 feet long, do you really mean feet or inches?

Kind Regards from Cologne

Ralf

Ralf and Frank:

As to the engine issue, the Volvo Penta operator's manual for the MD 2010, 2020, 2030 and 2040 states on pg 21 (for those that may want to see this in the manual) that "When sailing, if the boat has a fixed propeller the control level must be in the neutral position when sailing.  If the boat has a folding prop the control lever must be in the astern position."  

When I take out of neutral and put in gear while sailing, my vibration stops, but the manual says not to do this, so not sure which is worse.  I think Frank has the right idea, buy a folding prop.....

As to the other issue, the object that bounced overboard was 2-3 feet long, not inches.   Again, I think Frank got it, probably a batten from the self tacker.   I have not been at my boat this week but will check for the missing batten this weekend.

Thanks for the help.

Regards.  Jon

I have a Hanse 312 with a Yanmar 2GM20. While sailing I sometimes have the problem that I'm not able to put in the astern gear. than I use the forward gear. In my oponion that's the same for the saildrive:just stop turning! What do you think?

Kind regards from Berlin,

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

I think your right when you have a fixed propellor. On my other boat it was the same. I had a fixed propellor and put in the forward gear while sailing. Only that was no saildrive. But It is strange you can not put the gear in astern while sailing. But in my opinion it works bothways. Now I have a 3 blade folding propellor and now I must put the gear in astern position so the prop is folding. According the books from Volvo.

greetings,

Martijn "NO FEAR"

Hello All,

As a matter of interest, a rotating propeller creates more drag than a stationary one (only when sailing of course) This because a rotating prop presents a 'disc' to the water flow over it. (i.e. greater projected surface area)

Now, does anyone of you know why Volvo say to leave the gear in neutral when sailing? I always select reverse myself.

What folding props do y'all recommend for the VP MD2020?

Cheers.

Pic attached of my boat earlier today having her bum washed - taken with my new toy - Sony Ericsson camera phone.

Hello Franko,

Well I think if you want to know it for sure which foldingpropellor you should use please ask your Volvodealer about it.

I have a Hanse 341 with a Volvo 2030. In combination with a 3 blade folding propellor. I am very happy with this combination because You have 33% more power compared to a 2-blade foldingpropellor. That is very nice in harbours. Your boat responds almost imediately like a fixed propellor. Also backwards. But I do not know if it work out the same way with the Volvo 2020. But it is certaintly possible because Hanse do offers this in their optionlist. It will cost around the 1500 euro's or something.

But I thought the standard engine was 30HP for the 371???

greetings,

Martijn "NO FEAR"

Franko,

at my 341 there is istalled a 3 Blade folding prop. I'm very happy with that. The difficuties older folding props have are not shown at my model. Its a Flex-O-Fold and it has a very good reaction when stopping in the harbour. When driving with engine you don't hear any prop noises like fixed props sometimes have.

Hello all,

The story about the drag which is produced by a rotating prop is not completally accurate. Nature has it's way's and will try to go the direction with the least resistance. Naturally there is a moment (speed/revolutions) that the drag caused by the rotation of the propellor will dramatically increase.

So it can be interesting to check out you boat speed in different conditions. Or as Frank already sujested, mount a foldingprop.

Michael

Hi all,

surprised hearing of the Volvo recommendation not to take reverse gear position while sailing. I did it alsways on all my boats und since 4 seasons on my 371 (Saildrive/ 2 bladed fixed propellor) too.

I never regarded any problems. The gearbox is working without moaning und the propellor shaft seems strong enough for that.

Is there any competent expert who knows an answer? Isn't it better for the Saildrive to stand thousands of wild and useless rotations or to resist the sometimes hard pressure of water?

Should I at the end being forced changing- o God-  my so beloved attitude? 

Second thing: If it was the batten falling down, so I lost some in strong winds from the jib. So I brought it to the sailmaker and he solved the problem with a few stitches. If it was something of metal: Don't hesitate to climb the mast!

So long and best regards from

Dietmar/ Elisabel 

Stella*Nova,

Thanks for that - Anybody use other than the Flex-O-Fold ? Met a man from Germany this summer with a 341 with a Gori which was fitted by Hanse in Griefswald. He had complained about prop noise and the yard fitted the Gori at no extra cost.

What about AutoProp or Max Prop ?

Martijn, there is more to choice than just asking your Volvo agent, and would be very interested in how you get 33% more power just by fitting an extra blade to your drive.

(Small tip on 341 page for those who sail solo)

Hi Franko,

Like I said in my last message. 33% more power for the 3 blade foldingprop according to a 2 blade foldingprop. And not the engine has 33% more power. It stands in the books from volvo. 100:3(blades) =33,3% so because the fact you have 1 blade more and the blades are a little bit larger you become 33% more power in the prop. And this you would imediately notice when you will take a boat with a 2 blade foldingprop and after that the same boat with a 3 bladefoldingprop. A hughe difference!! So much easier to stear in harbours etc. and when you have 25 or 30 knots windspeed right from the front and when you are going on your engine, so much more power(+33,3%)

greetings,

Martijn "NO FEAR" 

Well Martijn,

That's my lifetime of engineering education down the drain then !

Still don't know which prop is the best to replace the standard fixed one with.

Italy beckons - hope it's warmer / drier than Sweden.

Ciao bello

Franko,

the Gori folding props are expensive but they should be very good. They do have the advantage with the second speed. Whilst driving forward you can switch in the backwards gear. Then forward again and the engine speed reduces without loosing speed. Thats good for the engine and good for the diesel consumption.

Have a look @ http://www.gori-propeller.dk/Index.asp?IDS=1198 - http://www.gori-propeller.dk/Index.asp?IDS=1198

Hi Franko,

please explain why your lifetime of education in engineering is down the drain now.

What do you not understand?

That a 3 blade foldingpropellor gives you more pressure as a 2 blade one. You do not need a lifetime of education in engineering to understand that. Or is it something else you do not know.

Besides that. The choise of a propellor comes with a budget.

2-blade - around 700/800 euro's

3-blade - around 1500 euro's

And a goripropellor like above (picture from Ralf) is even more expensive. I think you can buy a really nice gennaker from the money.

greetings,

Martijn "NO FEAR"

Interesting Site is also to find here:

http://www.flexofold.dk/folding_prop_test_results.htm - http://www.flexofold.dk/folding_prop_test_results.htm

Find a copy and paste from FAQ at the flex-o-Fold site:

Q. Should I choose a 2-blade or 3-blade?
A. That depends on what is important to you. A 2-blade is more efficient than a 3-blade (that surprises most people). Thus, a properly sized 2-blade will give you a higher speed at a given RPM in flat water than a properly sized 3-blade. The 2-blade is also lower in drag and less expensive. The 3-blade, because of its larger blade area, will accelerate the boat faster. This means a 3-blade is better around the docks, when powering against a head sea and when stopping. The 3-blade is also smoother if there is anything out of balance in the drive train.

Nice test. And almost exactly the way I thought: better in docks and against strong winds or seas. And a bit safer when you must backup imediately. And better acceleration. It was and is worth the 1500 euro's!!

And ofcourse there is less drag in the water becose of its size. The only thing that is new for me that it is quicker in flat water.

greetings,

Martijn "NO FEAR"

Hi,

I own 371 hull 212 and i bought it wiht a 3 balade flex-o-fold folding prop.  When I got the quote for the 3-blade prop, they stated it to be a 17*12-3L or 17*13-3L.  I also got a quotation directly from the Flex-o-fold dealer at the same price(but in that case I would have the fixed one as spare). However, I decided to by directly from Hanse to be sure to get the right size!

During my first summer I have been a little bit dissapointed since I need a very high RPM to reach a good speed. At 3000 rpm I reach 6,5 knot at flat water and if I give it full trottel (for a short time) I almost reach 7,5 knots which is good, but the RPM then reach more then 3800. The 3YM30 is rated 29 Hp @3200-3600 rpm. Even if I run the engine at full speed against heavy wind and sea I reach 3800 rpm. My conclution is that it's the speed controller that goes into limit, and not the engine power.

A check of the prop when I lifted my boat (I bought it in Greifswald already i the sea) showed a prop of size 16*10-3L, a big difference from the quoted size. A check with the Flex-o-fold designer showed a interesting history. Flex-o-fold first recomend the larger size but Yanmar did´t approve that. Instead Hanse chosed to deliver boats running with undersized props (this is true not only for the 371). My personal conclution is that Hanse sizes the prop for Charter skippers who don't understand how to run an engine. Full trottle will not destroy the engine but your ears. With this approach you can't either utilize the engine or the Prop.

A proper sized prop should allow the engine to run at it's maximum power and rated RPM at full trottle (for 3YM30 3200-3600 rpm) and then the skipper should reduce the RPM at cruising with 4-500 rpm. Then you get quiter and more economical installation.

So, my recomendation to everyone: Don't by the folding prop directly from Hanse (unless the can promize you a proper sized one), keep the fixed one and by a 2 or 3 blade directly from Flex-o-fold. The price will be the same but you will get the right prop.

I will trye to get Hanse replacing my prop, but I they don't do that I have to by new blades.

/Jesper

Hi,

Same thing with my 312: Flex-o-fold 3 blade prop directly from Hanse.. and the boat does only about 5,2 kn at 3000 rpm (according to the log).  Now when the boat is hauled it turns out the prop is 15". (at least there is a stamp 15L on the blades)

 Is this too small? The performance under engine is really not what I expected.

Susanne

Hi Susane,

What more is stamped on the prop? 15L is the diameter and the rotation direction (Left). I guess that 15 inch dia is OK. The pitch is more importent. Acc to Flex-o-fold 1 inch makes about 400-500 rpm. What RPM does it with full throttel? Does it go into speed limmit (max speed +5% acc to Yanmar Sweeden). What engine do you have? My suggestion is that you contact Flew-O-Fold in denmark for a recomendation. I use to have a Comfortina 32 with a 22 years old 17 hp Volvo and a 2 blade folding, cruising speed 6 knot, max speed 6,6 knot, so 5,2 sounds low. I also met a guy in sweeden this summer who was very dissapointed with the engine speed of his 312 with a 3-blade flex-o-fold. But as I wrote earlier. The problem is NOT Flex-o-fold, the problem is yachtzentrum and their way of sizeing the prop.

It's sad on such good boats, engings and prop's not to get the performance you can get...

Attached you can find what Yathzentrum planned regarding props early this spring. http://www.myhanse.com/uploads/jebe/2004-10-12_201611_Flex-O-Fold_Propeller_Übersicht_Yanmar.xls - 2004-10-12_201611_Flex-O-Fold_Propeller_Übersicht_Yanmar.xls

Jesper

Hejsan Jesper,

Tack för svaret.

How do I check the pitch?  It it also stamped on the propeller somewhere?

 The enginge is Yanmar 2GM, 18 hp.  I have never really tried full trottle for more than a few minutes..

Susanne

Hej Susanne,

On my blades 16L is marked in the casting (a "positive mark") and on the machined surface there is a "punch marked" 0. I guess this zero means 10 (but there is only space for on digit). If yours are marked 8 I guess it´s 8 inch (8 was the value from the table for the 18 ps on 311. I guess that they use the same casting for different pitchis of the same diameter.

I will call Flex-o-fold this week and ask how to find out the pich. I´ll post a reply when I know.

When you tested full speed, what RPM and speed did you get?

 Oh yeah a new problem...... I have fixed a original folding prop (with a volvo engine) from Volvo Penta. It is a 2 bladed one with annodes. I really don't feel any chance in power. Nore fuelconsumption. The only thing that is different is when motoring backwards. It takes a little more time to stop and go backwards but he...?? if you are used to it who cares? And sailing whow.....that goes faster than with fixed prop!! There goes my first place in the next Hanse Nederland race.....

When sailing you have to put the box in reverse and there is absolute silence!! Yeah this is great and the costs are beareble. This instead of the beautifull and 3 bladed gori.

Buy the 2 bladed and keep some chance in your pocket to by a Genoa or a gennaker!

Frank - Eternal Flame

Hi Susanne,

I just talked to Capella marin in Stockholm. They confirmed that the punchmarked "0" means 10 inch pitch. Check yours. They also made me an calculation and came out with a recomendation of a 16*12-3L prop (instead of the delivered 16*10-3L). This will give between 7,6 and 8 Knot @3600 rpm (full trottle) and a nice cruising speed 6-6.5 knot @ 2500 RPM. I will trye to get the sweedish dealer to replace my blades.

I suggest that you contact your Flex-O-Fold dealer in Finnland for a proper prop calculation and the talk to Sami at Hanse Finnland.

Hi, I have the Yanmar 3YM30 installed at my 341 and with the Flox-O-Fold I have the same issue. Full speed the boat makes 7.6-7.8 kts but the rpm is over 4000! I think that should be no problem for the engine but it needs a lot of fuel. Much better would be max. 3600 rpm when full speed.

I'm not shure if the rev-meter works exact. My feeling is that it shows too much rpm's.

Has anyone an idea how to check the rev-meter?

Kind regards

Ralf - Stella Nova

Hi,

Thanks for the info.. I'll go and check my propeller.

Susanne

Ralf,

You can buy a small hand Tachometer for about £30 in the UK