Waterhoses
Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 350
Forum Description: 350 Hints and Tips
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2156
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 03:41
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Topic: Waterhoses
Posted By: copain
Subject: Waterhoses
Date Posted: 18 May 2008 at 16:15
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Hi all,
You probaly remember my previous post "This boat is haunted"
http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2056 - http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2056
The bursted tubes ! I now have found the manufacturer of them and when you have a look at their site, all of you with hoses like this in a pressurised area. THESE ARE LOW TEMPERATURE VACUUM TUBES.
Yours will go to bits if you don't change them !
Have a look at the following info on:
http://www.ralco-tubings.co.uk/hoses/search/search-ARMOFLEX-item-253.html - http://www.ralco-tubings.co.uk/hoses/search/search-ARMOFLEX-item-253.html
The spiral is there to prevent them from collapsing and they cannot stand high temperature pressure at all.
I had an engineer on board to service my engine after the first 50 hours here last fryday who told me to get rid of those hoses and get something decent in stead. The engine coolingwaterhoses are of the same quality.
In the mean while I have send ralco-tubings the following mail:
"I would like to know if I can use your Armoflex 12 x 18 mm for a hot water pressure system and to what pressure I can go before failure ?
Could you also tell me the maximum bending radius and if the tubes are resistant to constant vibration?" Regards, Willem ------------- s/y Copain (Beneteau 281) from march 2008 Hanse 350 # 061 Visit my BLOG op http://www.wsv-haringvliet.nl/blog/maatje/ |
Replies:
Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 18 May 2008 at 17:56
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Thanks copain for sharing. Keep us updatet on that. I am worriing about the hoses too. I will have a look an mine, because as i remember (i am not on my boat) the hoses on my boat are blue and look a bit diffrent. May be i am wrong. But i will check it next weekend, where the transparent hoses go.. I found some pictures of my boat. They used diffrent ones. i will have to check, if these are heatet ones next time i use my boat.
I will report.
Motor You see diffrent hoses:
 Pumps in bathroom for Water and drainage of shower
 Bilgepumps
 Does it look the same on your boat copain?
And one more question: was it on your boat the hot water hose or cold water hose which burst?
 Because the hot water hoses on my boat starting froim the waterheater look white like this:
 ------------- Blake 370 
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Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 18 May 2008 at 19:11
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Hi Blake,
The hoses in your boat look OK. I can't read the label on the blue hoses connecting the engine coolant with the electric water heater. If they are certified for 100 degrees Celsius then everything is OK!
Did you add all those bilge pumps, or are they standard? ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: copain
Date Posted: 18 May 2008 at 19:15
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Hi Peter,
The blue hoses are the ones to your boiler and are the proper ones, although you would expect them to be red, while they become hot.
Where I live red is hot and blue is cold. I think they will be ok but it will be the next thing I will sort out.
As far as the transparent ones are concirned I think as long as they are on the suction side they will be ok ( being vacuum hoses) , but on the pressure side (cold or hot) they will not be ok since they are not ment for hot (over 60 degr C )pressure hoses. The pressure with these Jabscopumps is 3 bar at least. That needs a serious strong tube. I would suggest for you to wait on the answer from Ralco-tubings I send the mail to and we will talk again.
I think you should change all the transparent ones to better ones. Never had these questions on my previous boat a Beneteau 281. Although the Beneteau was a poor sailer, the quality of the used materials was without any question.
Regards, Willem
------------- s/y Copain (Beneteau 281) from march 2008 Hanse 350 # 061 Visit my BLOG op http://www.wsv-haringvliet.nl/blog/maatje/ |
Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 18 May 2008 at 19:19
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@panos
all you see is standart ------------- Blake 370
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Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 18 May 2008 at 19:20
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@copain,
i will wait for your response. I postet the fotos to compare with your boat. ;-) ------------- Blake 370
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Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 18 May 2008 at 19:55
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Hi all,
Looking to the pictures is obvious that the transparent hoses -with the spiral metal inside- are used at the suction side of the bilge pumps(2nd and third picture) and the suction part of the wet exhaust system (1st picture)-looks correct to me. Also the pressure side of the bilge pumps is connected to something looking like a normal garden hose- which is also OK since they withstand pressures of about 6 bar. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 18 May 2008 at 21:18
I am curious about the electric bilge pump. I tried to Google the pump using what I could see of the make and model number on the pump, but got no useful hits. It looks a bit more robust than the others I have seen and I wonder if it also is of a different type. Johan -------------  http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
panos wrote:Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 18 May 2008 at 21:25
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@Johann
It is a Vetus EBP 80. You will find it if you google
Or see this link
http://www.vetusweb.com/manuals/files/Bilge_pump_-_Ball_valve/110305.01%20r01%2008-06.pdf - http://www.vetusweb.com/manuals/files/Bilge_pump_-_Ball_valve/110305.01%20r01%2008-06.pdf
I think it is a good one. On other boats i saw smaller ones...
------------- Blake 370
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Posted By: Richard108
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 01:16
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The spiral metal in my transparent hose that was connected to my water pump corroded and a hole was created in the hose as a result. My Hanse 540 is 9 months old.
I was lucky that I was there and heard the water pump working and pumping water into my bilge and was able to fix it before having to much of a mess.
I would recommended replacing ALL of these transparent hoses with spiral metal in them where ever they are. ------------- Regards Richard ("Moksha" 540 #115 delivered Sept 2007) Pittwater, Sydney, Australia |
Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 07:32
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@ Richard
This all feels a bit strange.
Did I bye a new boat for a lot money or a naked Hull with a lot junk in it?
Just asking myself....... ------------- Blake 370
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Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 10:01
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Hi Richard,
Was the transparent hose used at the pressure side of the water pump
 ?@Blake : The use of an incorrect pipe doesn't save them any money, on the contrary, it costs a lot more, but probably they don't understand it.
How can a boat be correct the the next one to have it wrong
 Can it be that they run out of an item (pressure hose for example) and instead to wait for a delivery, to use anything that looks like it, just to finish the boat in schedule? Or do they hire anybody that can hold a screwdriver and assign a skilled workers job to him? And quality control? Do they use checklists ? How did it pass the QC ? Just wandering.
Next week I will visit Hanse (as planed long ago). The hull and deck of my boat will be ready. The major components will also be in place and connected. They suggested me to go there to inspect the boat and take photos before they install the furniture, the floor and finally the deck.
I think this is a great idea. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 10:07
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Good luck panos, and watchout for the hoses ;-) ------------- Blake 370
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Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 10:11
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Hi Blake,
I edited my post while you were probably reading it. Thanks a lot ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Conundrum
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 10:51
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Hi Copain,
The pipes to the sink on our 350 (hull 144) are white (hard plastic machine clamped) the same as the white pipes on Peters boiler. Are yours the soft blue ones as in some previous pictures or the 'Armoflex' ? .
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Posted By: copain
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 11:16
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Hi, On our 350 the pipes under the galey sink are the hard-plastic, machine clamped white pipes. These are proper connections. I mean the tubes under the bathroom sink. They are Armoflex.
Regards, Willem ------------- s/y Copain (Beneteau 281) from march 2008 Hanse 350 # 061 Visit my BLOG op http://www.wsv-haringvliet.nl/blog/maatje/ |
Posted By: Conundrum
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 11:41
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Umm, I'll have to check those tomarrow. |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 14:23
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Regarding quality control, which has been mentioned in more threads than just this one:
The Award Winning idea about Quality Control is... Let The Customer Perform It! There are two major advantages with this. One is that the customer will work for free. The other one is that the customer is assuming that his new Hanse will be top-notch quality and will not look for faults. The customer will therefore only discover the faults that falls down in front of his/her face. Let me take an example. I have had a major issue with the bath platform of my 342 which showed large cracks very soon after the boat was delivered. I have spent years trying to make Hanse rectify this problem. Still, I talk to other 342 owners who claim they haven't had any issues with their bath platform. The next second they tell me they haven't used it because they live in a country where it's too cold to swim. Does that really mean that their bath platform is of a better construction? No. I can almost prove that all Hanse 342s from 2005 and 2006 with bath platforms will get large cracks. What Hanse should have done when they got the first reports about cracking bath platforms was to make a new construction and replace ALL bath platforms, not only the platforms where the customer had complained. They should also make sure that EVERY 342 has got a sufficient bilge pump and they should see to it that every Hanse with holes drilled through the sandwich got repaired. They probably save some money by not doing so, though. Willem will probably get his hoses replaced because he performed the Quality Control in that area, but what happens to the other 350 owners? And what happens to future buyers of second hand 342s with the bath platform option? How are they going to fix the faulty construction when the warranty has expired? I see that there are many members at this forum that use the information they get here in discussions with their dealer during the purchase and handover process. They thereby move the responsability for the quality control back to the yard, to the benefit of others. I think that's a really good thing and I respect those people for doing so. I regret that I didn't know about this forum when I purchased my boat. Johan Hackman ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: copain
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 16:28
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Johan, You're absolutely right. When I had the trouble with the hoses bursting I rang the dealer and expected them to change the tubes and to pump 100 ltrs of water out between outer and inner scale. This happened twice. They had no time for me at that moment because two of there engineers were off ill. During my working life I was resposable for big projects troughout Europe and if a customer was in trouble and we had no engineer in the area I organised help for them anywere in Europe while I was at my homebase in Holland. No problem.
The fact they have two people ill does not interest me at all. They could have contracted this out to any yard or to anybody with some technical knowledge. They are just not willing !!!
So what happens you reckon? I get new tubes, put them in and pump the water out of the boat. They do nothing at all
I will be writing a report to Greifswald shortly after I collected all the data and like you say hopefully this will help new buyers with their new boats. The list is growing and growing !
Regards, Willem ------------- s/y Copain (Beneteau 281) from march 2008 Hanse 350 # 061 Visit my BLOG op http://www.wsv-haringvliet.nl/blog/maatje/ |
Posted By: Richard108
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 18:25
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Hi Panos The spiral hose was connected to the pressure side of the pump. See picture below.  ------------- Regards Richard ("Moksha" 540 #115 delivered Sept 2007) Pittwater, Sydney, Australia |
Posted By: copain
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 19:01
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Richard,
Very clear picture. You know what to do now don't you?
Use the info this great forum gives you and start kicking som as.......
Willem ------------- s/y Copain (Beneteau 281) from march 2008 Hanse 350 # 061 Visit my BLOG op http://www.wsv-haringvliet.nl/blog/maatje/ |
Posted By: Eduard
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 20:19
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Fellow sailors,
Thanks for the info.
I shall check this weekend what kind of hoses I have on my boat (2007).
Unbelievable that apparently the risk to damage a brand, is taken in such lousy way. ------------- Ed sy "Nimby" Hanse 342 #611 (2007); white hull, (one) wheel steering, Selden mast & boom, furlex 200S, deep draught, two cabins, traveller in cockpit, DSC VHF, inboard ap, B&G Zeus + Triton (2x) |
Posted By: Stella*Nova
Date Posted: 20 May 2008 at 10:42
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Many thanks guys,
I will also check the hoses in our new 370 and I hope I won't found anything of this rubbish. ------------- BR Ralf, Ex. 'a mare' H370 |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 20 May 2008 at 12:35
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Hi all,
I am convinced that there is something wrong with Hanse assembly.
Either the training program is not up to standards, or the supply chain is not working efficiently or the specs are not enough detailed or the QC is not strict- or all above at the same time. Me running myself a company about as big as Hanse, I tend to forgive them for the "small" problems as long as the major issues are perfect- the quality of the epoxy hulls, the number and strength of the glass mat/roving used etc. Also I am convinced that all these problems are because of the fast expansion and not by design (some other boat companies use in purpose-by design- lower than safe GRP thickness to save money and their boats are unsafe).
I also hope all this pressure from buyers will press them to improve and reach to a respectable quality standards. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: nickfabbri
Date Posted: 20 May 2008 at 13:50
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Well done Panos, I couldn't agree more.
I am so far lucky in that the many problems that our boat has, have been dealt with quickly and efficiently by the Hanse broker in Hamble.
However our list of problems is huge and quite worrying. ------------- Nick71 Hanse 320 |
Posted By: bjoris
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 00:03
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Hi!
I have no been in my boat, 350 and it is the same as you have discovered, right ones in the gally, not on the toilett and in the enginroom
Well, my list is also big, but mostly details. Today I have been racing my new 350 for the first time. We did have good boatspeed comparted to other ones untill we got problems with getting down our gennaker, and ofcourse since there is some stupid color problems on the ropes one of my crew did lower the jib when it was 20 knots of wind, so we lost a lot of time getting it up agian. It did twist around the forstay. BUT all in all a great day on the sea with our new 350. I really love it, even with the big list of faults... In those conditions it helpt extremly to pull hard on the backstay, the it did run along very good, but not until we discovered that we did have to pull realy hard... We did get in as the last boat because of our prolems but that is not important... ------------- H350#118 www.bjoris.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Conundrum
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 09:18
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I checked the pipes last night and we have the correct pipes to both sinks and rear shower, they even have colour coded sleeves in places. I did not get to check the internal shower. BTW We have the aft port toliet. The pipe from the water tank is the vacuum tube, which I asume is correct as it is before the pumps.
Copain, we have different main cabin windows than you, they are black without the plastic cover (the other windows have it) and sealed all the way around. I tool some photos but forgot to bring when with me this morning. I'll upload them tomorrow, along with some of the main sail which is 'too long' or as I suspect the boom's gooseneck is riveted too high on the mast. ------------- Conundrum - Hanse 350 #144 |
Posted By: bjoris
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 22:54
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As long as I can see I also have sika sealed all the way around... ------------- H350#118 www.bjoris.blogspot.com |
Posted By: copain
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 23:10
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Conundrum and Bjoris,
It looks like there have been some changes again.
I have hull #61 and yours are over #100.
Post a photo if you can ?
Willem ------------- s/y Copain (Beneteau 281) from march 2008 Hanse 350 # 061 Visit my BLOG op http://www.wsv-haringvliet.nl/blog/maatje/ |
Posted By: Stella*Nova
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 09:48
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Last weekend I checked the waterhoses in my new Hanse 370 and I
found some of the ones with the metal inside.
But only one little hose I have to change because there is pressure on it.
It is the short piece from the fresh water pump to the white water pipe on
the photo. I will change that very quick.
 ------------- BR Ralf, Ex. 'a mare' H370 |
Posted By: copain
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 11:54
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Hi Ralf, Very wise decision. I'm in touch with Ralco tubings in the UK to get some more details. My first question (mail) to them.
Details: Would like to know if this tube can be used in a pressurized area and to what pressure. The smallest radius it can be bend to and does it resist constant vibration, like when used for coolingwater on a diesel engine Thanks in advance W.Smith.
Answer:
Dear Mr. Smith,
Depending on what size you are enquiring on, the working pressure will vary. Please see below link from our website, working pressure are listed under PN/Bar at 20dgC https://webmail.kpnplanet.nl/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.ralco-tubings.co.uk/hoses/search/search-armoflex-item-225.html - http://www.ralco-tubings.co.uk/hoses/search/search-armoflex-item-225.html The approximate bend radius is 8 x the inside diameter of the hose. It is not a rigid product, it is a flexible hose so should withstand a degree of vibration but I would guess it would depend on how you are intending to use it, ie over a short or long length & how powerful the vibration. Regards, Martin When you go to their site looking at the different pressures these tubes can withstand you might think they would be sufficient. But don't forget all this is at 20 degr C and they have no table stating how fast the pressure resistance deteriates with temperature going up. Apart from that our coldwaterhose bursted too. Also on their site they call it: PRODUCT #4480 - ARMOFLEX THERMOPLASTIC SUCTION DISCHARGE HOSE
From this answer a have mailed them again asking some more details on which I am now waiting.
Regards, Willem ------------- s/y Copain (Beneteau 281) from march 2008 Hanse 350 # 061 Visit my BLOG op http://www.wsv-haringvliet.nl/blog/maatje/ |
Posted By: Stella*Nova
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 13:44
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Many thanks Willem for sharing your experiences with us. So we can avoide situations like you had.
Kind regards
Ralf ------------- BR Ralf, Ex. 'a mare' H370 |
Posted By: copain
Date Posted: 30 May 2008 at 22:44
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These are the spec's from the hoses. This information is from Ralco Tubings UK you can find on their website.
After a couple of mails the extra information I requested, like about vibration or the degradation with the increase of temperature never came. The same every time "All the info you can find on our website sir"
Their statement of "it should withstand a degree of vibration"I told them this was not good enough to me and then the same answer. "You can find all the information on our website sir".
Vetus sell the same tube. Their site is a bit more complete.
Pressure table
ID OD 20degr C 40 degr C 65 degr C Bend rad.
10 16 mm 7bar 5bar 3 bar 20mm
12 18 mm 7 5 3 25
16 22.4mm 6 4 2 35
20 26.8mm 5 3 2 50
30 38.4mm 4.5 3.5 1.5 70
32 40.4mm 4.5 3 1.5 75
35 44 4 2 1 80
38 47 4 2 1 90
40 49.4 3 1 0.7 95
45 55 3 1 0.7 110
50 60 3 1 0.7 125
The rest of the info in the Vetus cataloque is as follows:
Suitable for transportation of drinking and grey water on board, both suction and pressure. Made of transparent PVC with spiralled steel inlay
Tasteles and non-toxic. Temperature proof between -5 and + 65 degr C
So I mail Vetus and asked them if I could use this tube as an enginecooiling hose. Answer " We do not reccomend this" For cooling you should use our cooling water hose"
On page 88 and 89 of their digital cataloque you can find both hoses.
http://www.vetus.nl/en/catalogue_2008.html - http://www.vetus.nl/en/catalogue_2008.html
Regards, Willem
------------- s/y Copain (Beneteau 281) from march 2008 Hanse 350 # 061 Visit my BLOG op http://www.wsv-haringvliet.nl/blog/maatje/ |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 30 May 2008 at 23:10
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Hi,
We must be VERY CAREFUL with the engine cooling circuit. If you don't believe me look to my post: http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2016&PN=2 - http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2016&PN=2
Of course the same results (sinking) if one of the cooling tubes fails  .------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Conundrum
Date Posted: 03 June 2008 at 14:30
I see nothing about how the pipes stand up to an alkaline marine environment or the quality of the steel used in the reinforcement spiral. Someone else posted pictures of this steel rusting in places.
On a related topic does anyone have technical details of the 'Wesa' stop cocks. On our boat some of them have stainless steel nuts attaching the handles, while others are just cheap steel and already one is badly rusted. I think it is seeping slightly. The German site only has a photo: http://www.wesa-armaturen.de/produktsortiment.htm - |
Posted By: copain
Date Posted: 03 June 2008 at 16:27
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Hi Conundrum,
The last mail I send to Ralco tubings was never answered at all.
I think that a company who does not care about answering enquiries is a bad company.
The pic you send in I suppose is from inside your bathroomcabinet?
The jubilee clips in our boat are like on yours sometimes double and sometimes single. On the Y-piece there is just not enough space to put two clips. I don't want to worry you to much but these plastic Y-pieces are total cr..... and from experience I know they break very easy.
I don't understand why you have a T-connector with a blank in there. The cutout in the inner scale looks like being done with a chainsaw or something.
I just had a look in my cabinet and there is no corrosion on the handles although they are also mild steel, but the nuts are ss.
It looks like somebody has been fiddling with silicone sealant on the
T- piece.
I suppose the area is very moist all the time because of a small leak somewhere.
I would say. Talk to your dealer !! because this is not going to last very long.
Regards, Willem
------------- s/y Copain (Beneteau 281) from march 2008 Hanse 350 # 061 Visit my BLOG op http://www.wsv-haringvliet.nl/blog/maatje/ |
Posted By: Conundrum
Date Posted: 05 June 2008 at 13:38
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Yes the photo is from the bathroom. The T has been used to extend the outlet through the inner skin. I think the stopcock is seeping slightly through the spindle. As for the chainsaw work I could show you more behind the cushions in the cabin ------------- Conundrum - Hanse 350 #144 |
But over all we are very happy with the boat.Posted By: Equinox
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 21:52
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RE leaking hot water hoses.
Have today had clear spiralreinforced hot water pipe to heads sink burst and pump large amount of hot water everywhere, luckily were able to pick up problem quickly and replace hose before much damage done.
It would appear on our boat this was the only section of clear spiral pipe been put in between main hot pipework under basin taken to hot tap as presumably it was easier to bend into position.We dont have this pipework to sink tap in galley.
The boat is only 2 months old and as the rest of you guys, not impressed!!!
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