Hanse 630 or Hanse 540 for solo circumnavigation
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Topic: Hanse 630 or Hanse 540 for solo circumnavigation
Posted By: oceanbluesail09
Subject: Hanse 630 or Hanse 540 for solo circumnavigation
Date Posted: 18 July 2008 at 19:13
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Hi Everyone, i am new to this forum. I intend to undertake a solo circumnavigation around the globe, via the three capes. solo. non-stop and unsupported. I am looking for a yacht of approx 60 ft in length. Rigging for easy handling by one person. Other modifications that will need to be done to customise it for the journey include extra watertigh compartments fore and aft, crash boxes etc. I have been seriously considering the Hanse 54 and the Hanse 63. (The other options are Marten 49 - very expensive , about 1.5 million, but an all carbon yacht Jenneau SunOdessy DS - well built (from what Ive heard), better than the Beneteau Swan 60 - heavy yacht, very expensive What are your thoughts on the suitability of the Hanse 54 or 63 for such a voyage thru the southern ocean. In terms of 1. build quality 2. handling ease 3. reliability & safety would appreciate any help on this , thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 18 July 2008 at 19:33
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Hello there, welcome to the forum. I'm a Hanse 400 owner so can't speak to the 54 and 63 specifically but.... All Hanse's are built to a price point, they are some of the most economical boats for a given size. The main structures (hull, deck,...) are built well, are durable and they are performance oriented. A good base to build on. When it comes to more equipment testing situations like racing or long open ocean treks you will also require durability and reliability which is where some of the Hanse owners are a little disappointed. So upgrades are usually required to get where you want to be - blocks, halyards, etc. Perhaps this isn't as big a deal on something like the 630 as most of that is owner specified and priced accordingly from what I understand. One comment on something like an all carbon fiber yacht - strikes me that this type of construction is not as easy to repair and the number of people trained to do so is limited... if correct, not my choice for what you plan.
Cheers, Steve
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Posted By: colincooper
Date Posted: 18 July 2008 at 19:42
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Blimey you are brave. I assume you have the experience for such a voyage. Sorry to ask, but best to be safe.
Generally the Hanses are well set up for shorthanded sailing. Several have crossed oceans. I'm assuming that you will be customising it heavily thought so the "factory" options would be of little consequence.
I think all of the members of this site would be very interested to hear more as you plan and sail around. Especially if you do choose the Hanse. Do the Hanse factory know of your plans?
On your questions:
1. better than most manufacturers.
2. very nice with short-crew. Unsure about Southern Ocean though.
3. if it were me I'd speak to someone that had done the Southern Ocean at least. ------------- Colin (owner of Hilde - a 370) |
Posted By: oceanbluesail09
Date Posted: 18 July 2008 at 19:42
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Hi Steve, thanks for the quick reply. Just to clarify, are u saying that an all carbon fiber yacht (that is not easy to repair) would not be your choice? The upside of going with a production yacht is that spares and support is readily available. THe pricing for the 540 is about 600,000 Eur (customized), as given to be by the dealer. The pricing for the 630 (just an extra 11 feet) is 1 million Eur!!! No idea why the huge jump in price... What other yachts would you be looking at if you had to undertake such a voyage (assuming a budget of about 900,000 - inclusive of all customisations). |
Posted By: colincooper
Date Posted: 18 July 2008 at 19:45
Especially on a non-stop solo voyage  ------------- Colin (owner of Hilde - a 370) |
Rubato wrote:Posted By: oceanbluesail09
Date Posted: 18 July 2008 at 19:57
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Hi Colin thanks. Yes, been doing my research, and speaking to as many ppl as possible. Was going to go in for an open 60 earlier, but have decided othersie, as 1. they are quite expensive to run and maintain and get fitted out for such a voyage 2. there is not much that can be done with it afterwards. hence the option to go with a Hanse or similar as a base and then re-enforce it. I love the hanse design and the fact that it is very good value for money. After all, even the Hugo Boss Open 60 lost its keel andthere were a couple of capsizes over the Venedee Global and Velux 5 races. So the Open 60 is not much of a gurantee i suppose :) |
Posted By: Richard108
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 04:51
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I have just about finished fitting out my Hanse 540 for longer distance sailing (not nearly as long as what you propose though) and now realise that with any of the production boats that to get them to a stage that I would be comfortable to do what you plan their is more work, cost and time (to make the chosen additions and modifications) needed than expected. There are many extras that you might not at first consider including things like
More manual and electric bilge pumps
Many more strong points and handholds
Fitting out of storage places for sails and other storage
Making better access to things like the chain plates behind and under furniture
as well as all the expected additions.
I would also suggest you need to inspect the structure of any boat you look at. The Hanse range is better than most of the lower priced production boats with glassed in bulk heads well secured keel etc, but is does not have glassed in hull to structural beams. It takes quite some work to make these sort of modifications if you consider them necessary as you will have to start removing fixed in floor boards and furniture.
I would also suggest allowing a time to do a decent shake down voyage to test the boat and all the things in it and then yet more time to fix and modify as necessary.
I only have had my Hanse for a bit less than a year and am half way through a 2,000 nm round trip up the east Australian coast. I have been very happy with how the boat has handle in the conditions met so far, but this trip is nothing like what you plan.
The other great thing about a Hanse is this forum that can be a huge resource of information, ideas and feedback about setting up and using your Hanse. ------------- Regards Richard ("Moksha" 540 #115 delivered Sept 2007) Pittwater, Sydney, Australia |
Posted By: oceanbluesail09
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 19:43
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Hi Richard, thanks for the reply. this forum is incredibly useful. I did have a few replies saying that to modify a production boat is quite expensive, Here is one I quote start quote "Buying any production boat means you are paying a large fee for marketing, service, brand recognition, tooling, fancy interior furnishings, and styling. Lowest on the list are the sailing qualities and construction of the basic structure. IMO one would be making a big mistake (financial among other things) to modify a new production boat for such a voyage. None of the boats mentioned are intended for such work, why not spend less for a design and structure actually intended for such a voyage?" end quote. Im not sure if the above is applicable to the hanse. Yet, to design and build a new 60ft boat from scratch is going to be very expensive and it will also take a lot of time. I checked with a few designers such as Owen Clarke and we were looking at about Eur 2 million to start. The Hanse dealer I spoke to mentioned an 8 week production period. It sounds quite quick to me. What has been your experience with the production time? Do they deliver on schedule? I plan to start next November. So looking to place the order for the 630 or 540 in Jan. Do you think this is sufficient time? |
Posted By: Richard108
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 09:27
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Hi Ocean Blues I can't comment on the suitability of a Hanse for your journey from any of my experience. I ordered my 540 in early November 2006 and it was handed over to me in mid Sept 2007. Delivery time is very dependant on what the Hanse dealer has preordered for the year. I left for my first long trip 1,000nm one way in June 2008 and there was hardly a week since receiving the boat that I did not have someone working on the boat over the previous 9 months. Most of this work was extras and alterations, though there was a few weeks of warranty work. Since being away a whole lot of little issues have come up that have needed constant work and fine tuning, fuses, relays, loose tail shaft bolts, autopilot problems etc. If I was you and Hanse was the boat (which I would probably question) you would need to find a team of reliably and focused tradesman including sail maker, rigger, shipwright, stainless steel worker, Marine electricians etc to be able to get the work done in the time you are wanting and then allow for a good shakedown sail of probably at least 500nm.
So I would think that from order to departure you would be lucky to do it in a year and a half going from my experience. ------------- Regards Richard ("Moksha" 540 #115 delivered Sept 2007) Pittwater, Sydney, Australia |
Posted By: woolf
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 10:38
| hey. I would say check such guys already doing close to your intention to do. solo circumnavigation around the globe. here is the one with Open 85 ft Monohull: http://konyukhov.ru/eng/ |
Posted By: oceanbluesail09
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 15:35
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hi richard, thanks. i supposed the dealer was being quite optimisitc in the quoted time. quite a daunting task ahead getting the specs right before starting off. will kep you guys updated on the progress. thanks, |
Posted By: gshannon
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 23:32
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Hanse's are great boats, and I have a 371 myself, and love it. However, as a Naval Architect myself, and having designed several long distance cruising boats, I would not choose a 540 or 630 for such a voyage. This is because Hanse's are optimized for family cruising, where most sleeping and cooking is done at anchor or in a marina. Even though they are good fast sailors they lack many attributes I consider necessary for long distance singlehanding. Apart from the watertight bulkheads I will mention a few other things: Inadequate anchor arrangement, especially models with folding anchor rollers. These cannot possibly be made strong enough for anchoring in storm conditions. Lack of a sheltered steering position. Of course you will be using an autopilot or self-steering most of the time, but these can fail, and you may end up having to steer for long periods in bad conditions. I would insist on at the very minimum a hardtop and windscreen as fitted on larger Hallberg-Rassy boats, or preferably an enclosed wheelhouse. Hanse's tankage is on the small side, especially fuel. Battery power also tends to be less than optimal (if unplugged from shore for months at a time). Galley not set up for use at sea, lack of good sea berths. Of course for singlehanding you only need one! Most of the issues can be fixed, but it is generally more expensive to add thngs like watertight bulkheads than to build then in from the start. The twin wheels fitted on larger Hanses are great for the cockpit layout but create extra friction and make the autopilot work harder and therefore use more power. The rig is not very versatile when single handed in widely varied conditions. My first choice is a "slutter" rig as featured on Saga yachts. To keep this short, boats I would recommend are the Chuck Paine designed Able Apogee (one is for sale in USA) and any of the various Deerfoot and Sundeer models by Steve Dashew. These are boats built and designed for serious long distance sailing. I'd buy the Able in a heartbeat if I could afford it. I'd recommend a really well cared for USED boat as new boats have too many needs. It has taken me nearly 6 years to get my (much smaller) Hanse to a state of near perfection for my purposes. A careful search on Yachtworld would probably turn up several other suitable boats. On the other hand there are many good custom builders and designers who would help you get a suitable boat. But a custom built boat usually drops in value by half almost immediately. The way to avoid this is to buy a used one and let the other fellow absorb that initial depreciation. Just one opinion from a guy who has sailed for 38 years and owned 10 cruising and racing yachts. ------------- Grahame Tangleberry 371-092 aviadesign.com |
Posted By: oceanbluesail09
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 08:01
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Hi Grahame, thanks for the reply. really useful information. The issue wiht old yachts is the history is not very clear, and its quite hard to knowwhat kind of wear and tear the boat has undergone in the past. Of course having an experienced marine surveyor along may fix this issue. on the option of building one, a) this is a very expensive route. i did speak to merfin owen as well as Marten Yachts. But the cost comes to well over $1 million for a 50ft yacht plus the design / performance will still be unproven. The advantage I find with of going with a hanse (or another production yacht) is the tested deisgn. If it can be modified (with water tight bulkheads etc) during the production process this would be my first option. I yet need to speak to Hanse about this. As far as the rigging is concerned, the Hanse 54 seems a bit more managable than the 630. I will need to work on the rig for a single handed sail. Ideally i would like to have a full manual rig, to keep things simple. Still not sure how practical it is on the boat of this size. THe other option of going for a purpose built yacht such as the Open 60 is also available. Quite expensive yachts (though an old one could be bought for 400,000 Eur. Very expensive to maintain and not much use after the circumnavigation. Will still be looking at other yacht options. Will keep you posted. |
Posted By: colincooper
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 08:15
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It strikes me that an approach to Hanse at the head office is required. They may well be interested in the promotional / marketing aspects of you solo, single handed, around the world in a Hanse. They might be willing to talk about customising the fitting out of a new boat at cost plus not too much. They do have some pretty talented designers on their team. ------------- Colin (owner of Hilde - a 370) |
Posted By: Richard108
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 10:06
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Hi Bhavik The time you were quoted to build a Hanse would not have included the waiting time from the time you order to the start of building and also the delivery and the commissioning time would not have been included. Often it takes close to a year once an order is placed before the yacht starts to be built, but this obviously varies quite a lot. I would suggest you can manage a 540 single handled in high winds if you add the appropriate rigging for storm sails, reefing lines and in particular bigger winches. I would recommend at least 65 winches (70's would be my choice). The boat comes comes with 46's and 54's. I have replace by 46's with 65's and also added an extra set of 65's. ------------- Regards Richard ("Moksha" 540 #115 delivered Sept 2007) Pittwater, Sydney, Australia |
Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 18:03
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Grahame, very sound advice. I doubt I would have chosen a Hanse if a lot of off-shore voyages were in my sights - nothing wrong with the performance or integrity of the yacht, just not the purpose for which they are built (nor most of the modern day yachts). Bhavik, the suggestion above about talking with Hanse direct is a very good one. Their cooperation in this endevour is paramount I would say. Have a look at this thread... http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2318 - http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2318 a minor inconvenience perhaps but you don't want this stuff happening on a solo circumnavigation.
Steve
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Posted By: zephyrus
Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 19:12
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Although I own a hanse of the other side of the range (a 315) I do not understand the choice for a 60 foot Hanse.
Like stated by the others. A Hanse is designed for cruising and maybe a friendly match, but certainly not for circumnavigation. Let alone singlehanded.
In heavy winds I have troubles handling the main sail on my 315. It is beyond my imagination how to handle the main of a 60 foot Hanse, especially in heavy wind and with additional problems like a line getting stucked or a failing block (not seldomly reported on this forum)
I would anyhow choose a smaller boat if the investement is too high, with more but smaller sails. And I would choose a boat that is designed for singlehanded circumnavigation in the first place, with lots of handrails, round edges in the interior and a sea berth. All things can be changed on a one-off Hanse, but why bother.
I know of course "size does matter", but I would choose safety first.
Lots of wisdom in your choice.
------------- Happy sailing www.onzeboot.com |
Posted By: oceanbluesail09
Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 19:26
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Hi Zephryus, and thanks to allon this forum.. im still considering other yachts...maybe an used Open 60 or a heavier swan or island packet etc... the problem with the used open 60 is that it is very difficult to evaluate the seaworthiness and the structural damage that may have been caused by prior circumnavigatons.. there are quite a few up for sale in teh range of Eur 500,000. However, for that price, i may as well get a good deal on a cruser that can be used for much more afterwards....the Hanse did offer a lot fo value for money, but its been educational reading the responses on this forum...modifications required would be very expensive...and we are short on time as well.. will keep you guys posted. |
Posted By: Easy_Diver
Date Posted: 26 July 2008 at 14:19
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Hi Oceanbluesail09, I am planning to buy 37 – 40 range boat just for sailing in the East-Med region and already started to check deeply the problems which the Owner’s of boats in different brands like Beneteau, Bavaria, Jeanneau, Hanse etc. (due to my limited budget). I am already much too scared with the problems on such mass-production boats ! To undertake a solo circumnavigation around the globe, via the three capes, solo, non-stop and unsupported ! I would definitely go with much stronger built boats. Understood you are from Sweden, so why don’t you go with Sweden Yachts which I could not see in your list. Time to time, I am sailing with a Sweden Yacht 50 (owned by the boss) and quite amazed its strong hull and the quality of every piece.
By the way, I am currently reading a book about Vandee Globe race (Godforsaken Sea) giving an idea about what it can be solo in Southern Ocean and "roaring forties”, "furious fifties" and "shrieking sixties". Wooovvv, too scary ! |
Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: 04 October 2009 at 14:11
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Hi
I own a 540, sail a lot on my own, and would have no hesitation to sail the yacht on such long trips. It is very easy to handle, however, naturally from a standard version, would upgrade some of the equipment
Good luck
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Posted By: alisa
Date Posted: 05 October 2009 at 04:11
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Personally, I would look into the new cruising line from x-yacht, built specifically for ocean crossings. deeper hulls, bigger tankage and reinforcements needed to sustain big open oceans, or all the swedish boats such as halberg rassy, swedish yachts.... ------------- jl |
Posted By: Akitio_Rob
Date Posted: 07 November 2009 at 03:36
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Hi there - are you still intending to do this? What's your progress... and how much experience do you have ‘out there’.....?!!? The southern ocean can be a very lonely place. I would definitely be talking to the Hanse people before you go much further... Because: 1) they might want to support you, & 2) they will give to the stress-loads that their yachts can sustain. I live in And you definitely don't want to be in a boat that does not have permanent, robust wave and spray protection for the helmsman/trimmer (I realize this will be all done by the same person) – and without it, you will actually freeze! And I'd reccomend your hull to at the very least include a long rudder skeg, and particularly strong bearings, to help absorb some of the loads that you will encounter... Most of my ocean experience has been on yachts significantly larger than any in this range of beautiful boats (I’m here at this forum looking to downgrade for ‘retirement’); and have always wanted to do the trip to cape horn (from New Zealand), but have frankly been too overwhelmed to try; and that's after thousands upon thousands of ocean miles, including being caught in hurricanes at sea that have sunk other vessels, being surrounded by waterspouts, and lots of racing, including Sydney-Hobart's, etc. The boat I have has already been around the world - and other family members have been around the horn (although in a 150'+ ketch!)... but I still can't imagine doing solo what you're planning to do! But that said… What a fantastic idea!!! - And if you make some ground on this, then it'd definitely make me more likely to buy a Hanse - and potentially join you in convoy, , or perhaps a staggered start rally, or something! Likewise - I too am looking at a Marten, and Swan... or a custom build (which i want to cruise in the South Pacific too). Keep me posted. Great discussion! And most of all, good luck! Cheers,
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Posted By: Athina Captain
Date Posted: 08 November 2009 at 10:38
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The 630 is a wonderful boat, but I would not use it for such a voyage. Get a 540 which feels nearly as big, is cheaper, and more important, much easier to sail, especially in stronger winds. Hanse boats are generally well made, except that they have many small things that will need guarantee work. Just make sure you have a good importer. Stay as far away from Spain as possible. Not a good choice. In my opinion. Speak to Karl Dehler at Hanse, he might be able to give you some advice on what you can add to the boat. The 540 is quite customizable. I would make sure you have proper bulkheads and also have good electronics installed by the best installer you can find. Will be cheaper in the long run when you don't have to have someone check at each port. Make sure you add extra anodes and proper grounding or else corrosion will eat everything. The self tacking jib is great, but make sure you get a sturdy, but light sail to get it down easily. Also, make sure they install three reefs on the sail, two is still a bit too much sail. If you can, get a V boom and a Harken Y rail system, which makes it much easier to get the sail packed away quickly when needed. Obviously, you will need to test it extensively before leaving on such a voyage. Good Luck and enjoy the trip!!! S/Y Athina Hanse 630 - 004 |
Posted By: TAIMA
Date Posted: 11 May 2010 at 22:34
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HI OCEANBLUESAIL09
can you tell us all what you finally bought and how your progress has been on this project. You got so many replies, advices and ideas, I presume you ow all those good intentioned readers at least some fresh information on your whereabouts? ------------- Thomas Pollehne Hanse 630/06 TAIMA |