We own Ghost, a 470 and have done what you talk about.

 

First re the headsail, yes do it you won;t regret it! We had a carbon spectra cruise laminate designed by Quantum in the UK and they did a sterling job. The most they could get was 108% as you need to lead the sheets inside of the shrouds. The new sail adds considerable more speed and better angles. If interested talk or email to Ian Brown at Quantum Sail UK based at Hamble point Sure they can forward the design to the Australian office.

 

 

 

 

Next on the winches. The secondaries are near useless so far back. Not just cause it is hard for fellow crew to move around the helmsman but you can't get over the winch to use it let alone cracking you knuckles on the push-pit. So we moved ours forward and it was worth every penny. It is not 100% ideal, in the angles the lines are lead through, a raise cheek block would be preferred over the extra pad eye and block that we use but still at least now the winches are useful. makes crew work easier and is not a bad backrest with pillow attached when at anchor.

 

see the link below

 

http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2135 - http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2135

 

There is loads of stuff discussed about the 470 and 461 on  the forum but you might have to click a few pages back to late 2007 early 2008.

 

Hope this helps

 

B

 

We have just had a new 105 made - in fact it is a 103 as we have found that this fits slightly better.  we are hoping for an extra knot of speed.  Have not done the extra winches yet as we aim to see how we go with the new sail first.

 

Yeah you could say they are slightly small but it is consistent with what others are running, even back on the older Hanse 461. I think (I'm no engineer) that the angle that we see the sheets take to the winch reduce some of the snatch loading that the winch experiences, but sometimes i do wish they where slightly larger. But having said this they do the job. After all whether they are front or back they are still 46's.

 

When we decided to do it we thought we'd move the winches and then see how it goes, if it is good then we could potentially buy larger ones later. So far so good.

 

One thing that larger winches might do also is raise the sheets approach to the winch, which is only good for the coach roof. We added a couple of pieces of stainless to protect the coach roof as the 46s are slightly too low.

TonyD wrote: My thinking has been to add just one 52 winch on the port side in a similar position to where you have moved the 46's or slightly further forward and lead the main sheet onto this new winch thus leaving the original 52's for the jib sheets. The only significant problem I see is it is way out of reach from the helmsman.

 

Could do but i must admit that i like the symmetry and it does make life easier for crew. I'd go for two. More over the new position, either two new or secondaries moved fwd make kite work easier too.

 

If placing further fwd though be ware the necessary extra height in the approach angle that larger winches need to get on the drum and how this impacts where the main sheet exits the combing.

 

Small point in case Hanse have slightly changed the spec, are your primaries 52s or 54s as we have 54s.

TonyD wrote: Out of interest - what do you do with the self tacking sheet when using the twin sheeted jib? Clip it to the base of the mast?

 

Yep clip the sheet to the base of the mast or tie the self tacking car off to the base of the mast so it can't slide from side to side and add a little tension to the sheet

 

 

hmmm, i must admit we haven't had such ideal conditions!! It's always been lumpy and either no wind or too much!

 

I would comfortably say an extra 1-1.5 knots and up to 10 degrees improvement on the self tacking head sail.

 

 

Also, when using my 108%, I use the self tacking jib sheet as the topping lift for the pole in a symmetrical spinnaker setup....

 

Steve

 

No the winches are on flat surfaces without recessing.

 

The jib sheet as the uphaul for the pole is a great idea!

 

I reckon you have 54's. Interestingly I was on the lewmar website the other day and they have a nice little resource that allows you to put in type of rig, select a line and the sail size relevant to the line you have selected and gives a standard spec recommendation for the winch and a maximum spec too. In all cases what Hanse as on board is OK, the only time it starts to look a little light is on the larger genoas we are all fitting and therefore having to run two sheets. The Lewmar rec is for 48s as std or 50s as max. So really not miles away. Note that was for a 55sqm sail.

 

Where Hanse have let themselves down is providing 46s for the sheets on a spinni. Using a 1600sqft gennekar or similar, lewmar suggests 54s. But if you use the 54s for that then the main sheet is on the 46s which is also a little light.

 

On the electric conversion i reckon you'll find that the cost is boarder line prohibitive considering they are still smaller winches, it is seriously cheaper to move the 46s or even buy new 50 somethings and install them fwd. Moreover the power consumption if you choose to do extended cruising is another consideration and finally on racing you can't use electric winches to trim, only to raise sails and or reef them, or at least that is the rule in RORC racing.

 

We looked at the elec conversion back in the UK and where quoted something like 1500 to 2000 GBP PER WINCH!!!!

 

It is a shame that the options list doesn't allow for an upgrade to winches aside from the elec. upgrade. I'm fairly sure many of us would have taken it!!

 

We ended up adding 4 x 65st winches to our 540 (giving us 6 winches in total) and removing the 2 aft 46st winches.  We love the flexibility they give us especially when using the overlapping 108% headsail which we use 95% of the time, our boom brake for when where are offshore, running backs, reefing etc.  As Panos says you can read about these extra winches on the 540 forum.

 

 

 

 

A great upgrade though.

 

Brad McMaster wrote: Holy cow that is a lot of winch!!  I dare not ask how much it was knowing that just one 54 is circa 1300 quid!   A great upgrade though.

 

Brad  Even with the 65s; in a decent wind the 72 m2 headsail is heavy to wind in for most people.

 

Don't like using the electrics as all we end up doing is breaking things.  Actually I have a ban on all my crew except one using the 2 electric winches we have for this reason and even then we use the electric winches only for some things.

 

Having a boom brake takes up 2 winches, 2 winches for the overlapping headsail only and one for the main sheet using most of them up a lot of the time.

 

 

 

TonyD wrote: Hi Richard, I'll see you out there on Thursday night for the last of the Twilights! Cheers.

 

Tony - Should be a big afternoon / night with the prize of the Audi A3 turbo being drawn out of the barrel. 

 

 

 

Panos wrote: The check stays are never needed with the carbon mast !. Hanse installed them because they were in the contract, but we are going to remove them after we gain more confidence that they will be never needed in the future. The carbon mast has no vibration or movement at all while sailing, not even upwind in huge waves!

 

Panos that really surprises me.  I had no idea that a carbon mast would be that much stiffer in heavy seas.

 

How do you set up your boom brake that requires two winches. We perhaps do a smaller boat configuration where we have a short line attached to the end of the boom, that runs fwd on the boom to where the main sheet attaches. This is where it lives. When we attach the preventer/boom brake we run a line from the cockpit fwd to the fwd cleats and then outside the boat to about where the end of this line is. You the simply grab that short line (that has a clip in the end) and clip on the the line, tension up and sail down wind.

 

To gybe we let off a little tension, disconnect the short line and attach to shackle on main sheet attachment to boom (where it lives), gybe and attach to either the same long line lead on the other side of the boat (a little time consuming) or another ready laid and waiting line.

 

Re tensioning, we sometimes have it on a winch, and sometimes have the line running up the stb side for both tacks and just alternate which fwd cleat it runs through, other times we have it on an aft cleat and let the boom our as much as possible, tension as much as possible on the aft cleat by hand, make it off and then winch the mainsheet in to bring the boom off the shrouds.

 

On final question. Post the ARC 2007, John A spoke a lot about where to attach the preventer, ie at the end of the boom or mid way down the boom. I'd love to hear Richard and pano's views too. As I'm divided and even considering setting up an equalising line btw the mid and end points to attach to.

 

B

 

PS sorry to reopen old debates!!

 

Tony,

 

Thanks to Torben on the 540 forum i logged on to the Austrian Hanse dealers web side   http://www.hanseyachts.at/ - www.hanseyachts.at  and followed the link "Technische infos/downloads" on the left side. Here you can find all kind of diagrams for the Hanse boats.

 

An interesting info sheet in PDF is the deck plan for the 470 from June 2006!!  Wow what a beast they where planning. It shows, which i think you might find interesting, two winches but Harken 53s (clearly before the move to Lewmar but hey I'm happy with Lewmar) but note the difference from port to stb. Clearly two different plans ie not having winch layouts differing from side to side but it looks like A) they where considering bigger winches as standard, and B) the possibility (as seen on the port side) of having them further fwd, interesting to exactly where i have them!!!

 

Note also the capstan option, the down haul padeyes and all that extra running gear options!!

In cruise mode we get by using the two primary winches but both electric, for our 120% genoa and our mainsheet.  

As our mainsheet exits port side it means when on stb tack we have to lead that sheet across the cockpit to trim it on the starboard winch (as port winch is used for genoa when on that board.

But it all gets a tad messier when we additionally fly the spinnaker:-)

JOHN    

 

I have started a new topic on Boom Brakes and Preventers and have responded to your questions there

 

http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2873&KW=Boom+Brake+and+Preventers - http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2873&KW=Boom+Brake+and+Preventers

Guess I did not make myself clear - sorry.

Both our genoa sheets are same spec and colour as each other.

We do not run two sheets on the one winch, we have both main winches electric, and use one of each for each genoa sheet.

Only problem this creates is it leaves nix electric to trim the mainsheet with a particular problem when cracked off the breeze.  So this is why when on stb tack, we lead our mainsheet which exits on part side, round the back of the port main winch (which of course would be loaded with the port genoa sheet) and up to the windward stb unloaded electric winch - and adjust from there.  It means on that stb board we have that mainsheet right across the cockpit - and obviously a lot of load on that port winch.  But it all works.

Re cheek block - the 461 came with moulded deck relief onto which cheek blocks were fixed. 

These were angled to give a fairlead to the aft most smaller winches, but can be used to direct a sheet onto the main winches also.

Guess they were orginally planned only for the spinnaker brace which we bring in midway down the rail and into the cheek block before going to the winch.

When we use the cheek block for the genoa - we add a second set of floating blocks to take that brace. 

Finally we have like Brad, fitted stainless stips to the outside edge of the cockpit combing just outside those main winches so as to protect the plastic from any wear by the genoa sheets.

This does not sound completely clear - even reading it back and editing now twice before posting - but I'm hoping you are smarter than me and can understand what I am describing........

Cheers

JOHN