problems with new HANSE 540 e
Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 531 / 540
Forum Description: 531 / 540 Hints and Tips
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 03:08
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: problems with new HANSE 540 e
Posted By: carol dichiu
Subject: problems with new HANSE 540 e
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 14:36
|
Hi guys,I just bought a new Hanse 540e for a month now and I'm still waiting for so called "Hanse After Sale Service 24 hrs/ 7-7" help and attention to all my issues which I'm here stated below :
- generator is stopping after 2-3 minutes of functioning
- main engine stopped 3 times while working
- air condition in owner cabin is not working
- digital indicators of water and fuel are not function( both indicate wrong )
- compensation pump of the tanks are not functioning
- halyards ( ropes ) for mainsail, jib and furling are damaged
- spinnaker boom topping down haul is missing from the spinnaker preparation and there are not indications how and where to be fixed on the deck of the boat although it has been paid for
- Genoa track are installed in the boat for 110 % instead of 140 % and other Genoa track cannot be installed because there are not installed the necessary reinforcement under the deck
- the chart plotter can not be updated by Simrad representative in Romania and they have informed us that a new USB memory stick must be installed
- the cracks in bow were not repaired properly by Sailmarine
- the rod kicker has not been installed yet on the boat
- the light from the chart table is not working properly
- bowthruster commands are inverted
- the Genoa sail delivered is another brand from what we have ordered (they brought me a cheaper one instead of North Sail)
So,if you are starting to negociate or you decided to buy a Hanse 540e or any other model,prepare yourselves with lot of patience untill they will give you a call or answer to your problems, so ,to all of you : change the brand to someone who will treat you like a real client.
 ------------- verry dissapointed by Hanse 540e |
Replies:
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 16:08
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Dear Carol
Welcome to the sufferers´ club of Hanse owners. I´m the frustated owner of one of the first 531 delivered and over three years I have developed some know how on the multiple problems of the 531/540/630 series. My recommendation is that you find a good Marine surveyor in your country to issue a report on the construction and systems defects and notify the company that solds the yacht right away of those found defects giving them a time scope to fix ALL the defects. The problems you have found are just the start, your yacht will probably develop other problems on the propulsion system and you will have also problems soon with the halyard lines chafing and slipping through the stoppers. among many other small issues. I will try to reply to your first questions 1.- Generator is stopping after 2-3 minutes of functioning Check the diesel level on the tanks, as you said the Phillipi panels are just a toy. You can just have no diesel or air on the diesel line. 2.- main engine stopped 3 times while working Same check...... That happened also to my 531 in Barcelona No diesel when the tank instrumet maked 47 liters. 3.- air condition in owner cabin is not working I have received many reports of the AC systems failing, many owners just change the AC for something brand that really works. 4.- digital indicators of water and fuel are not function( both indicate wrong ) Yes as said they are toys, but they are nice ,,,arent they?. 5,- Compensation pump of the tanks are not functioning I´m not sure what you call compensation pump 6.- halyards ( ropes ) for mainsail, jib and furling are damaged[ Bad luck....ask for new one at their cost. 7.- spinnaker boom topping down haul is missing from the spinnaker preparation and there are not indications how and where to be fixed on the deck of the boat although it has been paid for Ask them to refit as per your specification, I have two spinnakers and a huge asymmetrical and a code zero and I have to refit the bow for proper installation. 8.- Genoa track are installed in the boat for 110 % instead of 140 % and other Genoa track cannot be installed because there are not installed the necessary reinforcement under the deck I cant belive this...or better said yes I can belive anything concerning hanse. 9.-The chart plotter can not be updated by Simrad representative in Romania and they have informed us that a new USB memory stick must be installed Many of us simply install Raymarine..sorry we dont like simrad. Ask for them to pay for the update or get a refund on you simrad electronics and order some traymarine instrument . The SS pod can be refitted easily for the E 120 series. 10.- The cracks in bow were not repaired properly by Sailmarine Notify them a time to get them done. 11.-the rod kicker has not been installed yet on the boat idem notify them 12.- the light from the chart table is not working properly That is a minor problem call and electrical tecnich and ask them to pay his bill. 13.-bowthruster commands are inverted Idem, that is easy to fix changing a couple of wires on the thruster. 14.- The Genoa sail delivered is another brand from what we have o (they brought me a cheaper one instead of North Sail) IMPORTANT Both the sail you have and the ones suposedly coming from North sails are very cheap filthy dacron sails. in my opinion you will do a good business by returning those sails to Hanse getting a refund and ordering any decent sail at a sailmaker. I can recommend some sailmakers that have cutted excellent sails should you need it. 15.- So,if you are starting to negociate or you decided to buy a Hanse 540e or any other model,prepare yourselves with lot of patience untill they will give you a call or answer to your problems, so ,to all of you :change the brand to someone who will treat you like a real client. What you have to prepare it´s your lawyer sometimes... Client in Hanse means nothing let´s look at this: Just two days ago we were checking a defective propulsion system on a hanse 540 in barcelona. The vibration of the wheel on engine was terrible and the two persons from Hanse shipyard told us that this vibration was good to feel the sea. Hanse thinks that Hanse customers are idiots. In another check of asimilar prpblem one year ago they put the wheel break to minimize the vibration and they told us : well It is fixed!. In another boat with a standing heel ( some 540 and 630 have up to 4º STANDING HEELING, check yours), , they pretend to change the mast trimming starboard to port to balance and unbalanced defectIve keel with a heeling to port. Great and cheap idea!!!!!! AND ON AND ON..... Goods luck and let me know if I can be of any help to you. ZenCap ------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: solar
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 16:16
| Hi, sorry about all the problems you have with 540e. Myself about to order this model, so all the information is very useful. Correct me if I am wrong, but all these problems are very much depend on your dealers approach. It must be sorted out well before it handles the boat to customer... Reading this forum I came up to conclusion... Hanse boats are as good as good their dealers are. And in your case is as bad as your dealer... But you are free to choose dealer by yourself from any country. Just in your case it's too late. |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 16:40
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Dear Solar
I have sent a private message. Zencap
------------- ZENCAP |
solar wrote:Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 17:18
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Hi, Dont get disappointed. Everybody has these problems in the beginning and they continue to appear for some time after. some of them the dealer or Hanse have to fix and some you should learn to fix yourself. Where in Romania you live? We have an apartment in Bucharest and spend there some months per year- my wife is Romanian. Possibly I could help you with some of the problems. I am sure you will love the boat when you start sailing it. It sails like a dream! ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: taduka
Date Posted: 12 June 2009 at 10:48
|
Carol
In fairness, most of the items mentioned can be easily fixed by the dealer and as panos said, some you'll learn to fix yourself. - generator is stopping after 2-3 minutes of functioning - main engine stopped 3 times while working >>> check fuel supply, feeder lines, pumps etc it may simply be contaminated fuel! - air condition in owner cabin is not working >>> make sure that the inlet for water is open. the unit will not work if sea water is not flowing (check also the pump is turned on!) - digital indicators of water and fuel are not function( both indicate wrong ) >>> try calibration but you will never have them 100% - compensation pump of the tanks are not functioning >>>> what do you mean by this? - halyards ( ropes ) for mainsail, jib and furling are damaged >>>> ask your dealer to get you replacements from sparcraft. they are very fast normally and replacements are sent without hassles. - spinnaker boom topping down haul is missing from the spinnaker preparation and there are not indications how and where to be fixed on the deck of the boat although it has been paid for >>> this seems an upgrade by your dealer - check with them - Genoa track are installed in the boat for 110 % instead of 140 % and other Genoa track cannot be installed because there are not installed the necessary reinforcement under the deck >>> make sure you were given the right specifications of the boat! - the chart plotter can not be updated by Simrad representative in Romania and they have informed us that a new USB memory stick must be installed >>> the GB40 you can do it yourself! you can download the updates on a memory stick, remove the charts dongle and upgrade the system! it's very easy - the cracks in bow were not repaired properly by Sailmarine >>> tell them to do it properly - the rod kicker has not been installed yet on the boat >>> follow it up with your dealer - again sparcraft are normally very helpful - the light from the chart table is not working properly >>> ask your dealer to check it - it's a simple job - bowthruster commands are inverted >>> again easy - re-wiring of the terminals - the Genoa sail delivered is another brand from what we have ordered (they brought me a cheaper one instead of North Sail) >>> this must be coming from your dealer not hanse. check with your dealer! I suggest you have a good discussion with your dealer as your boat simply needs to be properly commissioned. most of the items you mentioned are normal problems encountered whilst preparing such a large boat. I am sure that you will also discover some others but as panos said most of these can be easily fixed even by yourself and the more you fix yourself the more you get to know your boat and love it. Enjoy your 540 it's a fantastic boat to sail. Shawn |
Posted By: beppeg
Date Posted: 12 June 2009 at 17:14
|
And I am the third. Italian with an H320 on Lake Maggiore but working in Bucuresti.
 We are al lot!
  ------------- l'isola che non c'è - Hanse320 |
Posted By: Gran Onada
Date Posted: 12 June 2009 at 21:58
Most of the problems they shown up I fixed myself others still to be solved:
i.e. H-350 is a non epoxy hull, so I payd for epoxy primer to the dealer and hasn't been done.
------------- Gran Onada IV - Hanse 350 #130 |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 13 June 2009 at 02:31
|
Hello Gran Onada
Yes the warranty claims with Marina Estrella the Spanish rep. have been slow and painful. Many cases unsolved. The after sale service was dismayal. ZENCAP ------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: bperry
Date Posted: 13 June 2009 at 07:05
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Dear Hanse Customers, We have seen this post and the resulting comments and feel it necessary to correct the points mentioned in this string of comments and reply on behalf of Hanse Yachts. Regarding the comments made by Carol Dichiu: Our Dealer in As to the comments about Sails and Spinnaker Gear, these items were not sold by Hanse Yachts to the customer, but directly from a sailmaker to the client through the dealership. Although it is a Hanse Yacht, we cannot be accountable for the brand of sails that are bought and the configuration of the deck rigging if it is not the same as our standard layout and not bought through the factory. In this case, the team we are sending will work with the dealers staff to help them to locate and install the gear to accommodate these sails, and if not possible, we will arrange for the sails to be changed so the vessel can be used properly. Our only interest is the final satisfaction of the client, Mr. Dichiu. For the sake of all of our customers we sell only North Sales with Hanse Yachts. Our longstanding relationship with companies like Judel Vrolek and North Sails and the resulting performance that all Hanse Owners enjoy is something that we will not choose to compromise. In closing, we care about the satisfaction of every Hanse owner. We are committed to that satisfaction and will work diligently to meet your needs. Are our boats perfect? Is any boat perfect? Every boat made is a compromise of performance, functionality and cost. Our companies growth over the last fifteen years would suggest that we have for the most part hit the mark in combining style, performance and functionality at a very reasonable price, but we are always working to improve all aspects of our boats. Your satisfaction is the reason we are in business, and we are committed to each of you to help you make the most of owning a Hanse Yacht. Please work with us to help make your experience a positive one! I can be reached at mailto:bperry@hanseyachts.com - bperry@hanseyachts.com , and am happy to support you with any issue that you may have. We are committed to your satisfaction, and I will work with you and your dealer to achieve this. Sincerely, Brent Perry Vice President Hanse Yachts AG bperry@hanseyachts.com |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 13 June 2009 at 07:56
|
Mr Perry,
I bought a Hanse 342 four years ago. I took me three years of hard work to get her in the shape she should have been in when she was delivered. The bath platform broke, the rudder had to be replaced, the anchor locker drain was drilled through the sandwich, the gelcoat cracked around the shroud base, and many, many other things. I did NOT sense any interest from Hanse Yachts nor my dealer to make sure that I was a happy customer. At one point I hired a lawyer, but not even then did my dealer fix all the remaining issues. Sadly, I never took my dealer to court - check http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2712 - this post - but that was my intention. A qoute from the mentioned post: Since I consider the boat's real value to be less than what I paid for it considering the above said, I think my dealer owes me the balance. I estimate their dept to around ten percent of the original amount paid. That might never be settled now that I have decided not to take them to court. I might use your email address and really put you into the picture one day. Johan Hackman Stockholm Sweden mailto:johan@johanhackman.se - johan@johanhackman.se  -------------  http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: Brad McMaster
Date Posted: 13 June 2009 at 14:34
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Brent,
Bravo for stepping forward, my hope however is that this is not a once off. Clearly you can't respond to every post on this very very valuable website but it is nice to finally know that Germany does monitor the website, and does appear to care. I truly believe that you will learn a lot about the boats you manufacture and the people that not only buy them but support the brand. So please help us, to help you! I have had my ups and downs with being a Hanse owner. But i was lucky as i brought GHOST via the UK dealer. Peter and the team (and a couple of other dealers) are, from many of our perspectives, keeping the brand's head above water. You must put more effort into helping them source what they need. But like i said this is one of the biggest steps forward i have seen on this ongoing issue since i started watching, listening, learning and contributing. Here's to an ongoing and open dialogue B ------------- GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/ |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 13 June 2009 at 15:38
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Yes Bravo
We have been looking this moment for ages. ZENCAP
------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 14 June 2009 at 13:21
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Mr. Perry, We all thought that Hanses policy was not to answer to this post. We were sure that you listened but never answered, not even to serious matters as demastings and structural problems. What changed in Hanse? PS: IMHO this forum will never be like before. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: hawkeye
Date Posted: 15 June 2009 at 02:33
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Hi all,
I too say Bravo!
Brent is new to Hanse. He has been brought in to address major warranty/service/quality issues amongst other things. Notably, a number of the old guard are no longer with Hanse. Brent has full authority to make decisions and get them quickly actioned.
I probably had some of the first dealings with him a few weeks ago. Four months arguing was solved in 2 minutes as soon as he became involved, so Hanse are serious about this change in attitude.
Lets give them a chance and remember that Brent should not be hassled over minor issues - only those ones where agents are being unreasonable or where the problem is beyond what an agent could be expected to deal with.
John
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Posted By: bperry
Date Posted: 15 June 2009 at 06:50
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All,
The purpose of this forum is for Hanse Owners to be able to share issues, solutions, experiences and opportunities with each other. The last thing we at Hanse want to do is to make a change to that basic set of principles.
As a result, we benefit from this great opportunity to see what are the issues and solutions (and share in the great experiences) that you all develop and discover that make your Hanse Yachts better and better.
It is not my intention to answer each notice, but it is our intention to improve our boats and lean on your common experiences to make each new generation of Hanse Yachts a better one for your benefit. To that end, I and others spend a few hours each week reviewing what is said on this forum, and believe me it is a great place to look for the "answers to the test".
If there is something of relevance to the community, I will post a notice or a reply, if not I will continue to act as an observer, and take notes of what we can do to help all.
Please keep the comments coming, I and all of us at Hanse appreciate the passion and intensity that you bring to your ownership, and if you have any direct questions please send them along, I am looking forward to helping all of you to make Hanse a better company.
|
Posted By: Ingenii
Date Posted: 15 June 2009 at 10:48
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I agree with Brad - quality of experience is related to the dealer and i believe that Hanse Uk at the Hamble are very sympathetic and helpful. Also was discussing boat issues with an Elan 45 owner and he has lots of on going issues on a new boat.
As a benckmark, i have just bought a new jaguar xk r and after 800 miles it is back with the dealer for a software blip!
 regards ------------- No longer a Hanse owner |
Posted By: solar
Date Posted: 15 June 2009 at 11:23
|
Mr. Perry, Actions speak louder than words. Following Hanse owners experiences on this forum it seems Hanse has fundamental "holes" in quality control or even breaches on engineering side. As the example... never ending stories about leaking windows and hatches... not to mention much more serious problems  including Hanse's and most dealers attitude  What should I suppose to think about Hanse reading Johan's, Carol's, Panos, ZenCap's and so on... "nice" experiences? "I took me three years of hard work to get her in the shape she should have been in when she was delivered" or "...I hired a lawyer, but not even then did my dealer fix all the remaining issues. Sadly, I never took my dealer to court...". Do I still so keen to buy Hanse 540e? Hire a layer and go to court? Or maybe it should be named 540e DIY... NO NO NO!!! I can't understand how could that be (maybe I'm too stupid), but as potential buyer reading such Panos (and others too) experience with his new 630e makes me look around for others brands... "With the help of our dealer (Nick Argyriadis of Status Yacht) we disassembled all of them and reapplied Sikaflex. After some trial and error attempts we finally solved 90% of the problem". Is this some kind of DIY Hanse flagship for 1 mio euro or... excellence of German engineering? Sorry, but I can't find any proper explanation to myself. Maybe someone can help me?  |
Posted By: jeancharleb
Date Posted: 16 June 2009 at 04:02
| I just signed an order for a 470e 2010. Should I feel ok after all this reading or should I change my choice of boat. |
Posted By: alettaenmarcel
Date Posted: 16 June 2009 at 11:40
|
In holland you can reconsidder a made deal
If you do not want there is a therm to cancel the deal .
You have to decide yourself , but you can alway keep the last paying term till the last items on the boat are perfect or keep for exemple the last therm on the bank till a year after delivery for thing wich apear in the first year to be a problem
greetings and succes.
Marcel ------------- Kids Dingys 72-79 ,Several Windsurfboards 79-86 OK dingy competitions 86-92 , Trotter Pandora Race 92-98, Friendship 28 Sport 98-05, Hanse 370 06-...... |
Posted By: lukemi
Date Posted: 16 June 2009 at 17:23
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As I read these post, I can't help but think there must be something wrong with my 370e delivered in 2006. I am still looking for the types of problems others have found but, as yet, do not see them. Maybe I'm just to willing to accept the product that was presented to me. I have made a few mods, fixed the sink - fantastic update, installed my own windless - did not like Hanse's solution, etc a few others. Many of the updates I have done were a result of suggestions from this web site. I have never had leaks, no mechanical problems, boat was clean on delivery, in general, it met my expectations. Maybe since this was my first real purchase, I just don't know what to complain about. I do know that many of the boats in my local marina have MAJOR problems on delivery, engine lockup, doors falling off, steering wheels disconnected, and yes, rudders/prop falling off. I would like to have had a few "premium" updates (better haylard lines, etc) but I know I did not pay for these on my initial purchase. I guess I did not appriciate my dealer enough based on stories I hear from this web site. I significently relied on my dealer to provide a sailing solution for me since I did not know how to correctly configure a new purchase. They have been working with me over the course of the last 3 years and I very happy with their help (and their suggested sub-contrators). I am also glad to see some involvement by Hanse Corporate on this site. I think there is a wealth of information available for feedback that should be valuable for Hanse Manufacturing. I would also hope that Johan gets some help from Hanse to address his issues since he has significently help lots of us with his experiences.
Mike
Stella Maris 370e#166
|
Posted By: SOLITUDE
Date Posted: 17 June 2009 at 12:36
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Despite the enormous list of problems i have with my new 540 the difference your mood for or against Hanse is determinated by your dealer. I, and Hanse, have yhe chance of having in Portugal a very, very good team. Otherwise, court....
The boat is fantastic but its incredible the ammount of problems and errors. ------------- SOLITUDE |
Posted By: SOLITUDE
Date Posted: 17 June 2009 at 13:05
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I hope you support Jose Cabrita at Algarvesail because he has never turned is back on solving the immense list of problems i am having with the 540/182 SOLITUDE.
From top to bottom, from details to major defaults i could never imagine what i am going trough. I had previous a Beneteau and never ever i claimed a garanty problem. Be ashaime. Must tell that in one year i made 2200nm with 160h of engine and i am very pleased with the boat. But be carefull. One needs to be too patient... ------------- SOLITUDE |
Posted By: SOLITUDE
Date Posted: 02 July 2009 at 17:15
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Being a hanse lover and, as i said before, i wold buy again my 540e despite the many problems i have, i insist with you that the short term solution for all is to support strongly your local dealears.
Replly faster, dont take too many time reembursing them for their expenses with us, the clients,on warranty solutions, and give them faster answers on technical problems. The list of problems with my 540/182 is huge and sometimes not easy to solve but we, in Portugal, have a good dealer suported by a also fantastic harbour like Sopromar. I supose, and more, i am sure that you have feedback of all the minor and major problems so no need to expose them here. If you change the attitude of your dealers i am sure that will be reflected on this forum and that way we could infact use the forum for tips and sugestions where i will be happy to colaborate with a few... Till then i will continue enjoying my boat at lisbon and algarve with nice weather and good atlantic waves! This is a message for Hanse and in particular for Mr Perry. Start now during the global meeting in July. João de Vasconcelos e Sá ------------- SOLITUDE |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 19:39
Hi,
since my name was mentioned I feel I am obliged to answer:
1)I am very satisfied with my boat , the excellent way she sails,the very good design and placement of the fixtures on deck and below and love the design concept - she is designed around a small crew that wants to have fun sailing and club racing while having a fresh and easy to live in interior. Other boats are designed around the charter concept, others to cross oceans ,others to win races while others to achieve the lowest possible cost. Hanses concept fits to me perfectly.
2)As I said many times I consider my boat as a house (and not a car). A house, even the most expensive villa, has things to fix and requires constant improvements and maintenance. IMHO only first boat buyers are disappointed by the relatively few problems that ANY new boat has. I am very happy that the hull is extremely strong. A pump and a hose can be replaced, but a flexible hull can't.
3)Last, I am suspicious of members that post one or two posts (negative) and disappear. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: solar
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 20:28
|
Panos, 1) Thanks for your response. My concern is not a few problems or improvements or maintenance or etc. It's day by day, year by year routine. Just it look like Hanse doesn't fix bugs over the years as it's done in auto industry. After new model appears it's year or two for fixing any bug in construction. Look at Carol's experience, look at Solitude's. I do not demand from new boat model to be perfect, but at least I do expect over the years it has to improve and after some time you do not have to "disassembled all of them and reapplied Sikaflex". It's obvious fault in construction and spoilage, so why Hanse can't make it with Sikaflex if this problem persists over the years? 2) Learning from mistakes and improving. I expect such attitude from any. 3) And just brief me shortly why you are suspicious? I personally prefer to read and just very really write posts. So you say something is wrong with me? Or maybe dozens of post about nice weather could make you less suspicious? Or maybe Johan's negative post is more trustful? I just expressed my concerns/emotions influenced by all of 'my Hanse' member's experiences posted here. |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 20:40
|
@ solar,
Nothing personal, I simply dont know you.
Comments about boats, especially the boat I love, are more welcomed from people who share the same love : boats. Your comments would be better received (by me) if I knew for example what boat you are sailing, in which waters you are, if you are racing... etc.
------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 20:40
|
Panos,
I agree with you on many things but I don't quite follow you here. Are you trying to tell Mr Perry that buyers of Hanse boats should accept things like pumps that don't work, windows that leak, rudders that crack etc, only to mention a few things? If you buy a brand new expensive villa would you accept that the stove doesn't work when you move in? Would you fix it yourself with a smile on your face? Wouldn't you think the money you put in the seller's pockets included a stove that works? I think that the boat should be finished at the yard, period. The dealers should not continue building it by replacing faulty items or repairing badly manufactured parts. The customers should not have to have to do the "quality control". It should all be done at the yard. My name was also mentioned and I was quoted correctly: "It took me three years of hard work to get her in the shape she should have been in when she was delivered." I am not interested in cars so I never understood the car analogy. I expected my boat to be delivered as agreed between my dealer an myself. I paid the full amount in time but they never really delivered according to the agreement. If you walk into a pub and pay for a pint of beer and you only get a half pint you've been cheated. Please contradict me if you think I am wrong. Johan Hackman  ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: Alain & Anne
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 20:43
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I fully agree Panos statement ans would like to add some comment. Since the very beginning when I joined the forum (nearly four years now!!) I have always been very reluctant on complaining about my boat and the shipyard and the dealer.... As Panos said very well, a boat is much more like a house than a mass production car!!! And buying a boat (production or one off!) has nothing in common with most of the bought in your life. You are absolutly free to buy it and the way the boat wil sail is very much depending on your personal involvement. When we ordered the boat I knew the poor ingeneering of the anchor davit and the headsail furler installation. I did order the boat and I assumed what I knew before. When issues occurred I came to the dealer and to Werner Firros and the issues were sorted out at our mutual satisfaction. When I had a problem in Portugal, José Cabrita was more than helpful even he did'nt get a penny from that!! Having sail the boat for nearly two years now, we are very happy of our choice.....and we are living aboard!! At last try other brands....and the day you will remain locked in the toilet when the boat was on a beat..... you will be missing the stiff hull of the Hanse!! Alain ------------- UHAMBO 430e#004 White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising OCC Our blog: www.uhambo.fr |
Posted By: solar
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 20:54
|
Panos, Frankly speaking I do not care how my comments will be received (by you). You choose to be a public person and it's your choice. My choice is opposite and I do not care if it lacks "added value" for you. I wanted to say and said. Period. You were quoted correctly. Period. Summarizing: my post is not about Hanse-boat, my post is about Hanse-attitude. |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 21:03
|
One thing I have not mentioned before is that I respect the views of people who use their real names a lot more than the people who don't. There are a few great contributors at this forum who do and I highly respect Panos for using his.
Johan Hackman Stockholm Sweden ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: Gran Onada
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 22:00
A new boat always needs things to do, but these are to personalize it, not to fix bugs or manufacturing defects.
A boat when leaves the yard should be 100% realible, constant leaks on the windows and other manufacturing defects may be acceptable in one boat but NOT in all of them.
Even that, I must say that my Hanse 350 is an excellent boat and I am very glad I bought it (I really thing is the best value for money and what suits best my needs). But really the yard should care more on some manufacturing defects. I spoke with other Hanse owners in Spain and here we also have the problem with the importer that he is only interested in selling boat, but does not case in the after sales service which is "0". ------------- Gran Onada IV - Hanse 350 #130 |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 22:05
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Dear Fellows
Hey Don´t be offended, but this is going too hot!. Hanse yachts unveils passions!. This Forum is a great tool for all of us and respect for other owner´s positions should be encouraged. My position is 1.- Personal name or Nickname. Really I dont mind. I understand that some owners would not like to show their personal data. In some countries owning in public a one million Euros Yacht could be a nightmare. In my case I sign my posts on the cruisersforum.com with my real name, where my painful oddissey with Zen was described. Signing with a nickname doesn´t mean their posts are less valuable for all of us. 2.- Sikaflex DIY I understand Panos. If something is wrong with the delivered yacht sometimes you will love to fix it under your supervision. Lets say yachting is increasingly a technical hobby in many aspects. If you don´t know what is going on with your yacht on a an extended cruising, you are a nerd. So DIY is nopt bad as far as HANSE pays the bill . A warranty has to be honored or you are out of the market in one year. My case is even worst my DIY work with the propulsion system of ZEN cost me 25000 Euros plus VAT and three months later, Marina Estrella promise to pay that amount if I can fix a 540 and a 630 in Barcelona with similar strong problems. I fix them despite the reluctancy to accept the evident. That was in april 2008,,,,I´m still waiting my money.....They never repay my fix( still on the warranty period) . Even more funny Hanse used my drawings ( and my Barcelona mechanics ) to fix a fourth 630 in Marines de Cogolin France a few months ago....Incredible. This yacht was in a lawsuit for the defective propulsion system 3.- Cars and Boats From the engineering perpective I don´t understand why Hanse didn´t call the defective propùlsion systems and even worst why they are still reluctant to accept their engineering and installation pitfalls. I think carmakers are an example to follow, I receive a call from BMW years ago as the transmission belt of my car was found defective and they changed that for free. Ford and Mercedes are known to have done similar calls to their customers. And I feel is one of the reasons such brands are well recognized for its quality control, and they sport a repeating customer base. 4.- It is normal to have such problems? Yes and no, In the begining of the 531/540/630 series it was evident that the incredible growth of Hanse Yachts was paid by improvisation and some incredible pitfalls. That was understandable,. Not today time goes by and the improvisation continues. Zen is my third boat and I never had problems of the nature I have got with Zen. 5.- Hull and pipes I do agree with Panos fittings can be changed hulls not. The epoxy hulls are superb. Good winds Jose R Vigil SY Zen ------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: SOLITUDE
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 18:49
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Be patient and give Mr perry some credit.
I truly think he deserves that after meeting im in Portugal. Adopt a positiv atitude.. after solving all the problems i think i'm going to miss them... I'm receiving a very positiv action from Hanse and love my boat. Never had a situation with no answer or a solution. Will stay with Hanse if i change for a bigger boat. I am starting to know the boat from top to botton, literally! João de Vasconcellos e Sá ------------- SOLITUDE |
Posted By: Meaban
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 22:16
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I have been working in the car business at the beginning of my carreer. I remember well that statistically customers that had no problem with their cars were happy, nothing more, and that customers that had problems properly solved where VERY happy and much more linked to the brand. Should Hanse Yacht take this into account as I guess this is even more true whith boat owners. I often say to my friends that if my cars burns, I don't care. If my house burns, I will care for historical objects or pictures that may disapear. But if something happens to my boat this would be a nightmare. The link between owners and their boat is something usually very strong. If they are disapointed this is a major issue, whatever the boat costs. 2 years ago I got my 370 at Greifswald and went with her back to France. Hearing from new owners the potential problems, I spent 2 full days checking everything at Greifwald before signing the reception sheet. The list of (minor) defects was long. Hanse concepts and boats are really great and different from other yards. I consider that, having said that, the yard has no right to disapoint their customers. In the boat industry like for others products the crisis is here. Customers are very difficult to catch, and very easilly lost. After years of fast growing this is now the yard responsability to reorganize its dealers network, leave the unreliable ones, and strongly support the good ones, both in technical and financial matters (ie paying them back quickly when they have spent money for the customer's satisfaction). ------------- H370e #398 "ANSE VATA" La Trinité sur Mer France |
Posted By: jeancharleb
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 23:53
| Awaiting for my Hanse 470e 2010 that should be in demonstration at Paris this dec 2009. I feel (maybe wrongly) positive regarding a boat that will be well prepared. I know it wont be in the water. But still. Like a regular forum user told me in a private mail. The power of negociation is money.....keep 10% until the boat as had sea trial with testing of every system. This is wise, appropriate, not unrespectable towards the dealer responsible of commissionning. |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 23:07
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Dear Hanse owners
What is wrong with this picture? How could a half a million Euros Yacht be delivered like this? 
ZENCAP ------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 23:19
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Dear Fellows
Another view so you can have a better idea of what was going on ZENCAP  ------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: SOLITUDE
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 17:09
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UUUUpps! ------------- SOLITUDE |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 18:16
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Hi, Possibly our second in command could fix it when he returns from holidays. To be serious: what is the problem : bad keel installation or bad keel construction.( I assume it did not deform while sailing .)------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 21:20
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Dear Panos
Both. ZENCAP
------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: TAIMA
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 22:00
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Hi All,
just thought I should add a few comments on the quality issue discussion. From my perspective (my Hanse 630 was delivered in Greifswald in may 2007) I agree that Hanse should have a better quality control system in place in order to avoid probably most of the problems listed. We spent about 6 weeks at the yard during comissioning and had more than a dozen seatrials and of course had the opportunity to get most of the problems solved during that period. Still after leaving the yard on june 1st, and till arriving in the caribbean in december that year with more than 8.000 NM sailed the "to do" and the "problems " list was in constant move. Only few things I could relate directly to Hanse´s manufacturing mistakes. Most of the problems were origined at the suppliers including such "noble " names and brands like VOLVO, Sparcraft,BAMAR,SIMRAD,GORI,LEWMAR,Mastervolt etc. etc. , the same brands you would expect to see on most of the competing and even more expensive brands. The following are my conclusions on this subject:
a) Whatever the problem, at the end Hanse stood behind it and helped solve it on the best und most unburocratic manner. Sometimes it took some reminding, e-mailing or phoning, but at the end the problem was fixed in compliance with the warranty conditions.
b) Beeing this my sixth´boat, I must say that there is not a big difference with other brands , as mentioned most of the problems have been occuring on installed equippment, for which the ultimate responsible is the manufacturer
c) Whatever we choose or buy in live should be measured by the cost/benefit relation and for me I see no other brand or product on the market today that would beat the Hanse cost/benefit ratio. This does not mean that we have to accept quality problems, I just want to point out that I do not know an other brand that gives me so much boat for the money . And even after 2+ years with my still new boat, I would buy the same again in a blink. Of course i would change things based on the experience but I see no other boat I like better.
d)Last but not least, I want to remember all of you that we all bought a sailing boat, which´s main objective is to sail and bottomline is that all of our boats sail fantasticly if we compare them to competing brands in our price range. Most of the other boats behave like bricks compared to ours. Again this does tot mean we should accept quality problems, it just puts things in perspective and reduces them to the essentials.
Kind Regards,
Thomas Pollehne ------------- Thomas Pollehne Hanse 630/06 TAIMA |
Posted By: keith goodall
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 06:37
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Hi all
I completely agree with what Thomas has said. Our 531 is our 6th boat and the best to date - looks good, sails well and sure we have had a few problems although reading the posts of late it seems like a lot less than some.
Cheers ------------- Keith Goodall Savarna 531#36 www.sailblogs.com/member/savarna |
Posted By: Brad McMaster
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 09:04
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Hi all,
I too want to continue this positive note on what is a pretty damning discussion thread. I think it is time to move on a little from this broad sweeping negative headline as it doesn’t do the boats justice. I can echo what many owners are saying, yes we have had some issues, yes we had a great team in the UK to help rectify these and yes there are still a few niggling issues and some of these I am still taking up with Hanse. However on the whole, I think Thomas said it, there is a cost benefit ratio that I truly believe is being met. Having covered some 9k miles in the med over a couple of years there are so many issues with so many boat manufactures, some of which are held high as purveyors of quality, I’ve heard some horrendous stories from owners of Halbery Rassy, malo, X-yachts, Amel, and even oyster. Not to mention the court cases surrounding jeanneau and Bavarias! It puts the Hanse experience into perspective. I agree that none of these owners, us included, should have issues with something we have spent a lot of money on, but rest assured that it is an industry wide issue and I believe Hanse is moving in the right direction. Hanses sail great. The hulls (we have epoxy) are great, there are some niggling issues but on the whole I wouldn’t want this thread to turn off perspective buyers nor damage a company in an economically slow time. If you buy a boat of any make, expect to get your hands dirty, learn new skills (you’ll soon be a plumber, carpenter and electrician), fix many of the little issues yourself and not run back to the dealer with things a “sailor” should be able to manage on their own. If this doesn’t appeal, go buy a motor yacht. On the other hand I don’t want to be disrespectful to those that have serious issues with their boat. These issues must be brought to light so start a new thread so it gets the attention it deserves and can be solved, don’t just add it to this hanse bashing thread, it’ll get lost and ignored. I for one have lost interest in the email alerts headed “problems with new HANSE” All in all a great boat that as Thomas said an I know many of the long serving members of this web site agree is where it should be on the cost benefit ratio. B  ------------- GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/ |
Posted By: Stria
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 13:13
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Hi all. Stria is a h 400 e, with three seasons of sailing and 5000 miles under her belt. We had, as most people here, a few minor-medium issues. I received a mixed bag of responses from my dealer and, in one case, Hanseyard. On the whole, though, I am very happy with the boat: i.e. I would definitely buy her again. She sails beautifully, while being very confortable for my family of 4. I personally welcome the (silent?) presence of someone like mr Perry. This is a place where owners share their tips and their passion, perspective buyers make up their mind and, hopefully, from now on, Hanseyard will find the opportunity to fix some quality issues. But I will be even happier if, when needed, mr Perry and his colleagues will post their answers to the main practical and yard related questions we, members, sometimes ask each other in this forum without results (although, to be frank, I wouldn't very much count on it ;-)). Best j. |
Posted By: solar
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 14:43
Thomas, you have done quality control by yourself, but this is Hanse's job to do. Otherwise it's DIY boat. Moreover not all have such a huge experience as you do. Have Hanse payed you for these 6 weeks? How much it would cost to hire you for 6 weeks for quality control? I presume Hanse manufactured around 900 yachts last year, roughtly 3 yachts per day, and you have spend 6 WEEKS with 1 yacht quality control.  |
Posted By: TAIMA
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 15:13
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Hi Solar,
just to clarify: we spent 6 weeks at the yard during comissioning and not for quality control. During that time, we got the delivery of all the non standard equippment, which was installed by Wendel & Rados. We received the sail inventory and went out for trials with UK sailmakers and we started to equip the boat from scratch. And , of course, while there we tried to sail out as often as we could, and each time you come back you will have details, which the important thing is that the yard took care off. This was my personal holiday plan anyway for that year and we had planned it that way. In fact our dealer HVG in reifswald strongly suggested we should do it tht way. And it felt more like a prolongued Christmas period with "new toys" beeing delivered and installed almost daily. In fact I enjoyed that period and for a boat that size you should take the time to have it comissioned properly.
While there we met all kinds of customers, some staying there for just some hours and others for weeks. Some of the bigger boats sometimes even came along with "project managers" who took over in the name of the owner. On such a large boat with dozens of systems in place and the construction dirt around everywhere it is almost impossible, that filters dont get clogged or pumps stop from working etc. etc. Its no secret that people usually state that it is better to buy a 3 year old boat than a new one, if you want to have everything in place in working conditions.
All these yards cook with water, and I think Hanse is no different. Still they proved to be a successful yard and even in these difficult times they come up with innovations and expansions (e.g. Dehler). And by simple math, its obvious that a yard producing more than 800 boats (2008) you will find more complaints than at a yard selling 60 boats (Nautor Swan).
Regards, ------------- Thomas Pollehne Hanse 630/06 TAIMA |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 15:40
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Dear Fellows
We are all right, but we can not compare apples with pears. One canvas maker told me in Palma that Hanses are Poorman Wallys. I laughed. What a confusion. Do they know how much a Wally cost? I think all the comparisons are redundant. We have to focus in what we have...a Hanse. When the 531 production started, originally Hanse was positioned in a price ( and supposed in quality) above other production yards like Bavaria , Beneteau and the like. Filling an interesting market gap. The strong Epoxy hull was one of the differenciating points. With the launch of the 540, the prices went down and also the equipment...you have just to look at the undersized aft winches, the smaller tanks, the stripped furniture units of the 540 compared with the 531 version. That move puts Hanse in the competing range of the mass producers. However in my opinion Hanse doesn´t have the machinery or the skills for mass production like lets say Bavaria or Beneteau. So we will see if stripping out the 50 and 60 footers to compete in that fierce market was a good move or a wrong decision. Sometimes small and efficient is beautiful. Following Brad´s recommendations I will start a new topic. It is true that "Problems with new hanse 540" It´s too generic. well I didn´t star this topic. By the way I´m curious about our Romanian fellow. Mr Dichiu, Please How is your claim going on?. Has Hanse changed its perception of customer service after Mr Perry incoporation to the team?. I think this is an interesting point for the future. ZENCAP
------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: -UMA-
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 14:25
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Just to compare apples with pears.... I paid my Hanse 470 complete with extras and ready to sail 290.000 Euros included 20% VAT.
A friend of mine one year befor payd his Baltic 47 J&V design in epoxy 1.200.000 Euros included 20% VAT.
And he had not such problems as me...
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Posted By: Yeoman
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 16:04
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Just a quick note on behalf of Hanse dealers.
I assume that I speak for all dealers, although my comments are only based on our experiences in the UK.
We deliver somewhere between 40 and 60 new Hanses each year and looking after customers is a full time job, as you would expect.
The majority of problems that we have (80%) are related to parts, which are fitted to the boats and not actually manufactured by Hanse themselves. When there is a problem with a part like this we have found that we get a good result by contacting the UK supplier directly, who in most cases are happy to send a new part in return for the damaged one.
This solution requires the owner to be quite hands on, whether it be to unplug a wind instrument or unshackle a block and pull the reefing line out of it. What a dealer will find it very difficult to be able to afford to do, is to send someone to your boat to do this for you. Boats of course and Hanse' especially get spread around the world very quickly, whereas a car dealer will ask you to bring it back to the garage, this is not possible with boats.
There are a number of products/suppliers, for which this solution is not possible and in these cases it is up to the dealer to get approval for the cost of the replacement from Hanse prior to being able to complete the work.
As a dealer we will always try and minimize the time an owners Hanse is unuseable and we will do everything we can to fix these types of problems immediately and then worry about whose cost it should be later.
When a problem is actually Hanse related (quite rare) they will always come up with a solution and effect a repair as quickly as possible with a minimum of fuss.
Due to the nature of boats and the environment and conditions that they endure, it is not reasonable to expect as few problems as we have from our cars.
Our Uk customers in particular are great and more often than not will do everything they can to help us get a problem solved as quickly as possible.
In the middle of writing this a 430 owner has called from France after having been towed in by a lifeboat thanks to no wind and losing drive from his prop.
He has been to a local agent to have a look at the boat, been in the water the check the prop himself and I have asked the UK Yanmar agent to call him to run through a few possible issues and solutions. With any luck this will be solved through specialist expertise and the owner's willingness to help get his boat back to working order.
This problem has nothing to do with the way Hanse have built the boat or the way the owner has looked after it (Pre delivery inspection and full Yanmar 50hr service).
I won't go on anymore. We set up and host this site so that as Hanse owners you can share your experiences and make owning a Hanse as enjoyable as possible. I find it very very dissapointing that this thread inparticular has used it for the wrong purpose.
Neither ourselves nor the factory have time to check and read the threads on this regularly, so please do not try and use this site to contact us.
Your dealer is your first port of call for problems and I would like to think that they can (with your assistance) get the problem sorted as soon as possible. If you are unhappy with the way that your dealer is looking after you, that is when it is time to take it to Hanse themselves.
I hope this all makes sense and thanks again to our UK owners for being helpful & making looking after you and your boats as easy and cost effective as possible.
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Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 09:42
All of a sudden I wish that there was a delete button for all posts I have written and all the pictures I have posted at myHanse. If Hanse UK have set up and funded this site and think they can dictate what people write it should be clearly stated somewhere and not pretended to be a users forum. If I had known, you would not have seen any of my contribution over the four years I have been a member. I also find it very strange that someone at Hanse UK think they can write such a post speaking for all dealers and not use their proper name. And by the way, ALL the major issues with my boat have been Hanse-related. The six (!) different bath platforms, the rudder that didn't last more than two years, the anchor locker drain drilled right through the sandwich laminate and the cockpit main sheet traveller that was not fastened properely and could have hit someone in the face in a gust at any time are examples of that. Most of the minor issues have also been Hanse-related. In fact, very few issues could be blamed on other manufacturers. It's still Hanse's responsibility as seller of the boat though. Hanse have got ample chance to make me a satisfied customer but they made other priorities. I don't think they should interfere at a user forum to stop people from writing about their experiences. Johan Hackman Stockholm Sweden The below picture shows my bath platform when my boat was only three months old. I agreed to take the boat back to my dealer to get it relaced but they did nothing about it. Then I sailed to Greifswald but they did nothing. After a year Hanse's after sale told me that they were making priorities to new production. The first time the bath platform was replaced was 15 months after the picture was taken, but it cracked already after four days. It wasn't until two years after the picture was taken the bath platform problem was solved and that involved rebuilding the cockpit bench to make the bath platform fit.  ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: holby
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 11:53
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Dear Hanse UK, I realise that as you fund this forum it must galling for you to find that there is such a critical thread about Hanse in general running. --- I think it things like this must be like being hit over the head with your own club.
BUT take heart you need the rough with the smooth. I think you realise that to make this site work, and it does work, I think it is a great success, and you deserve a big pat on the back for this. For the interaction of people and the exchange of information on here it must be seen to be indipendent from Hanse UK. Don't get me wrong I am not have a go at Hanse UK, I am just making a statement.
From my own personal experiance, and involvement with Hanse UK on a customer / supplier basis, sadly I only bought a second hand 301, as this is all I was able to afford, I have found Hanse UK's service to be second to none and I can find no fault with it, and it is for this reason, that I have mentioned to Peter that I would always start with Hanse as first port oc call on any boat purchase.
BUT, and this is NOT aimed at Hanse UK at all, as I have the greatest of respect for the team there, reading the posts and threads on forum, Hanse Yachts perseve to have a number of Quality and other isues, wether from Equipment problems or ones of Hanse's own making, or their dealer making.
Whether the problems are real or perceived I am not to here to judge but I make the folowing observations;-
1) Is there any room for improvements in Quality Control?
2) If faults are turned around quickly and effectivly would the problem be that big that it would warrent a post on the forum?
3) If nothing can be done by Hanse, then this descission must be communicated to the customer quickly with suggested courses of suggested action.
I have always found that communication is the best tool to reduce problems, I prefer situations, to a more manageable level.
For example, if there are improvements done to the Quality Control system, due to help from the forum, then SHOUT ABOUT IT, DONT HIDE IT, get the forums buy in show that you have taken on board what has happend and that you are doing something about it.
I think, most of the feelings from customers are frustration, again this can be done by discussion.
If you look at the contents of the threads, the frustration is showing by the perceived inactivity of poss the dealer, or Hanse.
I leave you with these observations.
My apologies if my sentence construction or spelling is not great as this is a major weakness of mine.
I also apologies if I upset anyone because of this post, it is not my intention.
Dave ------------- Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp) 
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Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 12:15
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If one reads the forum, I think you should come to the conclusion that there are a number of problems with Hanse boats. If it is more or less than any other brand, hard to say. People spend a lot of money to buy a boat and would like to sail with it without having to bother about the problems they (might) face. I think one can expect an after sale service who takes every problem serious and do their utmost to solve it in a way that is satisfying for both parties. Based on the forum posts I think that there is a difference between the various dealers on this point.
If there are problems with third party equipment that is placed by Hanse, than Hanse is the one to solve it. How? That is up to them. Everybody makes mistakes, that is accepted. But not taking responsibility for mistakes made, is not accepted. Gregor ------------- Uisge Beatha Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002) Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80 http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu |
Posted By: holby
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 12:25
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Gregor,
I totally aggree, that when there is a problem with third party equip as Hanse supplied it with the boat, then they should be the ones to sort the problem out.
Not taking responsibility for mistakes made is again not acceptable.
Hopefully the new VP at Hanse will put into place improved service and quality procedures.
Dave ------------- Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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Posted By: Gran Onada
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 13:58
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Hanse should be reponsible for ALL parts included in the boat, and fix them or replace them with no cost, and as quick as possible. For most of us our boat is our most expensive toy and must be treated as what it is: something that we use to forget about problems, not to give us more headache.
I can not imagine going to my car dealer with a problem in fuel injection system and him telling me to go to BOSCH who is the manufacturer of the FI.
------------- Gran Onada IV - Hanse 350 #130 |
Posted By: holby
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 14:37
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Gran Onada,
I think the point is being missed I am just making some observations, in certain areas.
Dave ------------- Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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Posted By: TAIMA
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 14:53
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Hi All
A few comments:
a) the intention to regulate what can or not be said on a thread, besides from disrespectful speach or otherwise damaging verbal behaviour, reminds me a little of what is going on right now in my country, Venezuela, where the government is trying to regulate the free speech by law, including jailtime up to 4 years for all who do not think like them. This of course is unacceptable and the world has just seen enough of this in history. It is important that everyone has the right to "write the pressure off" and say what they think and feel about a certain issue, again in an respectful manner without allowing personal offenses.
b) Its obvious that the ultimate responsable for the boat will allways be Hanse. Just an example: my boat is located in the middle of the tropics with temperatures sometimes hitting 35-40°C, after only 1 year, all the exposed LEWMAR resessed hatches started to delaminate and just fell off. I contacted my Hanse dealer in Greifswald, as well as Lewmar directly. All I had to do is send some pictures plus the hatches serial numbers and I got an inmediate response from Lewmar that they accept the claim as the hatches were manufactured with a non tested glue. So a couple of weeks later I got all new hatches (9 pieces) sent down to Caracas by DHL free of charge. Total value was more than EUR 3.500.
I think this is a practical approach and the way it should be. The costs were kept down for everybody and I got my problem solved much faster then to wait for hanse to get the hatches and them sending them down. we put our effort in there too by exchanging the hatches with my own staff.
I have many such examples, with Volvo (Injection pump had to be exchanged twice) , Bamar Furler, had to be exchanged, Sparcraft goose neck had to be exchanged, Simrad Plotter had to be repaired 3 times!! etc. etc.
Each time the coordination was made via the dealer and the repair/exchange was fulfilled by the manufacturer. In my opinion this is the way it should be. Of course you dont go to Bosch for the exchange of the pump, you go to Hanse and they solve the problem. If at the end you get the pump sent down by Volvo , or you pick up the pump at the local Volvo dealer and the local Volvo dealer fixes the problem, what is wrong with it?
I think the rule has to be common sense, balance and the willingness to approach the problem open minded . We all need Hanse to become stronger and better and we all agree in our interest that the brand becomes recognized, if not for other reasons, at least for the reason of mantaining our boats value as high as posible. I think we can help our dealers and Hanse to become better and this forum is a great tool for this. We will not be helped if Hanse , such as many others, in these difficult times, gets its neck broken
regards,
------------- Thomas Pollehne Hanse 630/06 TAIMA |
Posted By: Brad McMaster
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 15:18
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Guys Guys,
Please lets take a step back and remember what this forum was created for and how many hours many of us have had on it in the past and the banter and useful insights to the boats that i still believe 99% of us truly love and enjoy. Johan, Hanse UK is not trying to censor or dictate what you write, and please don't wish your 1273 comments were removed. I for one would be worse off if they were!! Not to mention the great pics you always have in store" Nor where they advocating going direct to the 3rd party part manufacture to fix and issue, they simply asked that you work together with the dealer to get it resolved (again Taima's example best demonstrates this). This is a great site that has helped many over and over again. Yes it can be used to demand/achieve a more satisfactory result from Hanse in general if other means have been exhausted but don't turn it against the good that it has achieved. Taima talks of very good results using the dealer network as the first point of call, this is all that Hanse UK was advocating. I have had a similar experience, and i can name a dozen others that i have met face to face would agree. In fact the vast majority of owners and users of this forum are very happy sailors, that are out there sailing their boats and dealing with issues in there stride. I admit some days are better than others but that is the essence of sailing. ------------- GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/ |
Posted By: holby
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 15:30
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Well done everybody we need a pragmatic approach
Dave
PS and yes the forum would be the worse for it if Johan could remove his posts, and yes Taima, glad you got good response from the dealers
Dave ------------- Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 01:20
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Dear hanse owners
I would like to make a few comments on the previous posts. 1.- I think what Gran Onada says about the responsibility of parts failure is pure common sense. I support his position. Yes I have a Mercedes and I have never been directed to Bosch for an injection repair. Good example. It makes a lot of sense for me. 2.- Holby post has the real points to discuss. Sorry your exposition is nothing but great!. You hit right the points! POINT>>Is Hanse now addressing the problems?. Humm... I haven't see this. POINT>>Are there room for improvements in Quality Control?. Sure there are, but are they really aware of what is going out of the Greifswald yard?. I doubt it. Look at the keel pics i have posted some days ago in this thread. how can a boat be delivered like this?. Please no more excuses with the dealers. POINT>>Are faults being turned around efectively? My OWN experience: Two years of nightmare with replies from Greifswald like: "we have never heard about this before". I have even heard several times "You are the only one with this problem". I have even been told that *I was wrong with my fix to the shaft system* of my 531..... while HANSE was using my system and my drawings in a 630 that was repaired in warranty after a lawsuit on a French court in Marines de Cogolin. POINT>> Are they hiding the problems? In my experience yes. Why?. There are hundreds of Hanses with defective systems and undersized parts. That costs money. Another example In the keel case showed in the pics above: The proposal from Hanse to fix that mess, was to trim the mast to the other side to compensate the standing heel. Awesome....Great and cheap idea!. By the way I was present in that meeting, and I have good ears, so please no questioning to the truth anybody. I was astonished by the proposal. The last forum news: we have a submarine called "HanseowneR" placing absurd posts. his profile is empty. I dont think he a real Hanse Owner . He is just here to mess the forum. A yard or dealer submarine? Finally Hansegroup is a public company quoting in the Frankfurt stock exchange. Can a public company in the present market situation have a Forum with plenty of angry owners?. Your comments welcomed. This topic or thread has some 3664 views up to date. I was impressed to see that my thread of refitting the shaft system at the cruisers forum has some 8000 views. Is the Hanse customer issue going out of control?. I know of many angry owners that are not participating here. They even don't have the time. the writing or technical skills or the English knowledge to be here. But still they can read. So don't think the problem is limited to.... we the posters. The problem is much worse. ZENCAP
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Posted By: giagio
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 12:11
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Dear all I’m an owner of a 530 since 2006. I’m based in Rome. I would like to share with you also my point of view about this delicate topic. In order to offer my contribution. The list of problems that I had since the launch of my boat 4 years ago is HUGE and I wouldn’t like to afflict you with the details of my issues. Also because this topic has been well treated from all of you and more or less we are at the same page. Luckily my local dealer ( Nautilus \ Rome) did a great job solving a lot of after sales problems, absorbing a lot my frustration and my irritation. To be honest, despite the evident efforts of the Hanse Dealer, a lot of problems have been not solved yet and probably they won’t be never solved. For example the air condition system, absolutely not enough for the 530…… ( I remember the answer “ We are sorry but we have not big experience about the south Mediterranean temperature….!?”). Anyway this is just an example. Overall I’m happy about my boat and I still believe that in the range of 16\ 17 meters the 530 \540 models for design, comfort and costs are in the top segment. My candid and friendly suggestion for the Hanse group is to take care about these feedbacks. The additional value of this forum in terms of customer perception and customer satisfaction would represent for Hanse a fantastic propeller for the improvement and for the adequate investments and resources allocations in the customer satisfaction area. I trust Hanse… I love Hanse… I want to go ahead believing in the Hanse vision. I defend and I remark the uniqueness of my boat every time that I have a discussion with all my friends; owners of different boats. I feel to be part of the Hanse family! But at the same time I would like to tell to the Hanse management (…. that I’m sure are connected with this forum) the probably for the strategic perspective and for the future of this brand, it will be much more important and profitable to improve this evident dissatisfaction area rater then to deliver 5 boats more next year….! Giagio |
Posted By: holby
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 12:14
 Well said
Dave ------------- Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 20:06
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Dear Giagio
Bravo! It could be told louder but not clearer. ZENCAP ------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 14:46
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Hi, We all know what are Hanse yachts. To me they have perfect design, very good quality hull and deck, very good sailing concept and modern interior and they use famous brand parts (Lewmar,Yanmar etc...). Assembly and QC are an issue but IMHO not better or worse than equally priced boats. There is an issue with us owners. Some of us look to glass of beer and describe it as being half full while others the same glass as half empty. Most probably I belong to the first group. I made and still have several minor claims against Hanse but these do not stop me from LOVING MY HANSE. I would certainly buy it again. There is a third group of owner/forum members : Those that use the negative publicity and us (the rest of forum members) to press Hanse to handle their claim faster or more favourable. My opinion is that those members are USING ME/US. This I don't like at all. I participate in this forum because of our common interest in sailing, the same way I belong to a sailing club. I certainly don't want to be used. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: jeancharleb
Date Posted: 06 October 2009 at 03:23
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just quoting Giagio:
" I defend and I remark the uniqueness of my boat every time that I have a discussion with all my friends; owners of different boats." Just gave an order for a new 2010 Hanse and was told on this forum that my boat would be well constructed, assembled and followed after because of my great insecurity resulting from reading this forum. Love the boat on the dry cant wait to wet it and see.... |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 06 October 2009 at 20:47
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Hy Jeancharleb
My best wishes for your new boat. Enjoy it. I would like to make a remark, The problems described in this forum are real and not inventions. We are all quite busy to be inventing problems just for fun. ZENCAP
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Posted By: John Allison
Date Posted: 20 November 2009 at 14:26
I do not always agree with Panos but on this one suspect we both have an inherent distrust of negative people.
In regard to the question above - if you want a blistering fast cruiser which turns heads and is a top design and built to the right standard for its price - then I don't think you should cancel the order.
Our 461 which was the first in the UK and so we even purchased without a trial sail - but she has never let us down despite covering more miles than most on the site - and nor have the UK dealers ever dissappointed us.
I now bellieve, noting Hanse Germany (for the first time) monitoring the site is for me a huge leap forward in Hanse communications - and hopefully demonstrates how serious they are about the quality issues raised here by others.
I'd always prefer to buy a product knowing all the issues from a company prepared tosee the issues presented in the public domain - like they are here.
The good news is quality build standards which most report are the easiest thing to get back once they've got lost. A good reputation not only is an assett of Hanse, but an asset we'd all enjoy when the day comes to sell our yachts.
So could I suggest maybe less negativity please - Herr Mr Perry has given you his email - get in touch if you've got an issue and give him a chance - and he should know if he ever needs someone to put the other side in the quality argument and show Hanse have produced some top quality boats - I'd be more than happy to provide a reference.
Our yacht still gets mistaken for new after 30,000miles - and outpaces anything of a similar size when we line up on the water.
Rant over.
My view is we give top marks to Hanse Germany for standing up to the line (at last) and whilst I am sure they will see a few more buckets of poo thrown their way, they need to know a goodly majority will applaud if they don't duck the issues, but simply wipe it off and work to make things better.
On on
JOHN ------------- No longer a Hanse owner - but loved the one we had! |
Posted By: Brad McMaster
Date Posted: 20 November 2009 at 19:21
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Yep John pretty much sums it up. Like John we had the first 470 in the UK and therefore we had some little issues that the UK dealer worked hard to sort out. 11k miles late we are happy. Yes we still have some things to deal with from time to time but that is boats and every manufacture has to sort these issues out. Brent Perry has proven a real asset. Now two days of setting off across the Atlantic with the ARC the general feel here is that his role is making a difference. Friends on Sunboy (470) have had Hanse reps on-board for the last couple of days making things right and can't speak highly enough of the experience and support.
IT ISN'T ALL NEGATIVE B ------------- GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/ |
Posted By: DylanChong
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 04:33
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Be patient and give Mr perry some credit.
I truly think he deserves that after meeting im in Portugal. Adopt a positiv atitude.. after solving all the problems i think i'm going to miss them... I'm receiving a very positiv action from Hanse and love my boat. Never had a situation with no answer or a solution. Will stay with Hanse if i change for a bigger boat. I am starting to know the boat from top to botton, literally! --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.bladelesstablefan.com - bladeless fan http://www.bladelesstablefan.com - dyson fan http://www.bladelesstablefan.com - Air Multiplier |