rudder bearing break
Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 461 / 470
Forum Description: 461 / 470 Hints and Tips
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3182
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 03:18
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Topic: rudder bearing break
Posted By: tobo
Subject: rudder bearing break
Date Posted: 26 July 2009 at 15:52
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Today we broke the lower fixation/bearing of the rudder stock on a 470. This bearing
looks quite small to me. (s. pic from above) Any experiences on that?
We are stuck in a marina and the mecanics will check tomorrow. How long can you go on like that? The shaft
moves about 1cm sideways.
Steering is ok but what happens to the upper bearing if you have to sail home for another 100sm? Appendix: I just talked to a 540 Pro-Skipper mooring next to us and he said that the whole bearing must have gone in a long process of splitting and of being tored out. What we can see now is just rest of the seal lip ring of 4-5mm for the outside. Amazing and shocking how this can happen on 2 years old boat which never hit anything nor was aground! Sailing around like this is potentially dangerous as when it tores out the body and producing a hole on the tube it can sink the boat.  ------------- Thomi |
Replies:
Posted By: Kytho
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 11:47
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Where did you take this picture from? Could you post a second one as an overview and/or describe how to access the potentially defective part? It would be interesting to check on our boats whether this is an issue. Many thanks in advance! Kytho PS And how did you solve (are you solving) the problem? |
Posted By: tobo
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 12:01
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This picture is taken inside the lazarette looking down the rudder stock when you unscrew the cloth cover between stock and body tube. The whole bearing is completely gone (!) which means it must have been a long lasting process. Solution is simple: motor home easily, lift her out of the water and a new bearing will be mounted and paid on warranty without hesitation. Except of course if you haven't run your boat somewhere aground! Because you don't feel it on the wheel wether your lower bearing is still ok or broken (or already gone) I advise everybody to check: shuddle your rudder blade for unusual play and have a look like on the pic from the inside!
------------- Thomi |
Posted By: Impressa
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 16:42
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About 2 weeks ago, the stering started to be harder and noise coming from the lazarette. First I checked the wires but then I noticed the noise is coming from the rudder stock. Hanse controlled the rudder bearings and had to admit that the lower bearing are defect. With som oil the noise disappeared and the steering is as usual again. Hanse said it will take until the end of august to get new bearings.
Regards Claude ------------- 470e #179, Vaxholm |
Posted By: superliga
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:29
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How old are your boats and how many NM did they cover? ------------- PEARL - S/Y SUPERLIGA - HANSE 470 e - Hull #168 - hanse470.com |
Posted By: Impressa
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 17:27
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Hi
June 2008, nm i don't recall but not too many ------------- 470e #179, Vaxholm |
Posted By: tobo
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 20:26
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Our boat (H470-#120) is from April 2007 and has sailed 5000nm
------------- Thomi |
Posted By: CARAMEL
Date Posted: 03 August 2009 at 09:52
| My H470#087 delivered june 2007 was out the water for the first time and I too noticed a broken lower rudder bearing. JEFA admitted that the size of the original bearing was too small..... The bearing has been changed and now the steering is much better. I did pay the cost myself (250 €) |
Posted By: tobo
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 12:00
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Could you please quote me Jefa's statement und the type of the new bearing. Hanse has sent me a new bearing and I want to know wether it really is the better one and not an "old" one.
------------- Thomi |
Posted By: wolf
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 14:33
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tobo,
do you get the bearing straight from hanse or a dealer? |
Posted By: tobo
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 18:37
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from hanse yachts greifswald
------------- Thomi |
Posted By: Kytho
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 09:41
I have removed the cloth cover between the rudder stock and the body tube, but it is difficult to see down the hole to assess whether the bearing is damaged. I took a photograph (see below) but cannot interpret whether the bearing is still intact. Can Tobo or somebody else give me his opinion on this?
|
Posted By: tobo
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 11:51
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dear Kytho, Although I'm not an expert this bearing looks fine to me. I just wonder about the size, very thin indeed, which makes me think about Caramel's comment that Jefa admitted they used a too small bearing in the beginning. I'm still waiting for the original statement of Jefa in his case. Hopefully Jefa reads our discussion and makes a statement now to finish this annoying topic!! ------------- Thomi |
Posted By: CARAMEL
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 15:26
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Hi Tobo and Kytho,
Sorry for my late response but I was sailing for a few days.
Servicecenter JOHN JOOSE in The Netherlands did the replacement of the lower rudder bearing and it was also him who phoned with JEFA.
I know he gave the size of the rudderking by phone to Jefa and then they made the new bearing (1 day of waiting). I think it's worth to call JEFA and verify the size....
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Posted By: Alain & Anne
Date Posted: 10 August 2009 at 15:22
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Post censored.....and move in Chit Chat! ------------- UHAMBO 430e#004 White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising OCC Our blog: www.uhambo.fr |
Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 10 August 2009 at 20:56
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Maybe these photo's can be of any help:
http://www.uisge-beatha.eu/index.php?mact=Album,m54235,default,1&m54235albumid=33&m54235returnid=63&page=63 - Replacing the bearing (and more) Gregor ------------- Uisge Beatha Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002) Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80 http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu |
Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 11 August 2009 at 07:57
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Very helpful fotos Gregor. Thanks for publishing.
One short comment:
Did you check the area with these many corrosion holes in the aluminiumshaft in the area of the bearing. This is an area with the highest loads! Does´nt look very strong anymore to me. These holes can be deep inside the shaft. ------------- Blake 370 
|
Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 11 August 2009 at 08:18
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The corrosion was a point of worry too. What I did, after flinting the shaft to get the bearing fit, I made polyester and 'painted' the shaft, actually filled the holes, flinted the polyester until the bearing would fit again and than replaced the rudder. Problem that occurred, the rudder did not fit into the bearing because of shrinking of the bearing. So I took the bearing out, placed it in a bucket of very hot water for a couple of minutes, put it back in the boat (not easily) and than put back the rudder. Gregor ------------- Uisge Beatha Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002) Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80 http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu |
Posted By: tobo
Date Posted: 11 August 2009 at 09:39
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As I started the topic I would appreciate if you don't mix comments in this topic of different types of Hanse Yachts. We are talking about problems on the 470. With a 370 the problems might be very much different and it's only confusing the readers. So please stick to your class/type and open your own topic. Thank you.
------------- Thomi |
Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 11 August 2009 at 10:44
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Rudderbearingproblems might be a problem for all of us at some time
Sorry for disturbing the upper class
 If you want to have a private room please call the webmaster.
The webmaster already opened some "private rooms" for danish and italian speaking people.............................
------------- Blake 370
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Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 11 August 2009 at 15:17
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Hi, ........................................................................................................................ ........................................................................................................................ ........................................................................................................................ post censored by angry 470 owner. PS: Sorry I didn't want to intrude. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Brad McMaster
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 10:33
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Thought i might add this one in. We too had a crack rudder stock bearing. Mentioned it to Hanse UK. They went to work on sourcing a new one with the aid of a couple of Pics i sent though (boat was in turkey at the time).
They got one sent from Jefa or the factory in no time. They also helped with sourcing some labour in Turkey to help with the fitting. All in all, while it was a bugger for the bearing to have gone. Hanse made it a pretty much trouble free experience. 
 ------------- GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/ |
Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 11:51
The pictures shown look very much like the bearing in my 311... Bit surprised by ToBo's reaction. Gregor ------------- Uisge Beatha Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002) Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80 http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu |
tobo wrote:Posted By: Brad McMaster
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 12:24
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Guys,
I think all experiences should be communicated in all or any forum. Yes keep the topic "on topic" but boat size, if the experience is relevant, shouldn't matter. I for one have learnt heaps from the experience of those on larger and smaller boats. Lets keep this great forum light, social and fun, so we can all share our experience and help others resolve issues....the way it was intended. ------------- GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/ |
Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 12:32
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Agree Brad.
Gregor ------------- Uisge Beatha Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002) Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80 http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu |
Posted By: tobo
Date Posted: 25 August 2009 at 20:18
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I have now the official answer of JEFA: There are two types of lower rudder bearing for Hanse 470, 471 and 430. Boats built before 1/10-2008 have type Nr M17-368-115 or after Hanse numbers: TRU 3014. Newer boats have M13-466-115 which according to Jefa is not stronger but easier to install. Mr Jan Faurschou of Jefa wrote to me: "When you mount the new bearing, you have to be very carefully when you lift the rudder stock into the bearing. If you damage the bearing under that process, the bearing will fall apart over the next year". In other words: Only qualified people can do the mounting or repair. What he also pointed out: Don't grease the inside of the bearing only the O-rings outside and don't use a hammer to get it back on! Being asked for the reason of the break of this bearing on such a new boat he said that he can only imagine that this can happen if the shipyard doing the assembly of new boats did not do a proper job. Ergo: Dealers must supervise the assembly of new boats very carefully.   ------------- Thomi |
Posted By: Brad McMaster
Date Posted: 26 August 2009 at 18:28
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i wonder why they say not to grease the inside??? ------------- GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/ |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 26 August 2009 at 22:08
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Hi, Probably because it is water lubricated. Since water will find its way inside anyway, I guess they made it sea water lubricated. This is possible with modern materials. The problem is how to avoid barnacles and "rust" on the aluminium shaft. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 26 August 2009 at 22:27
Probably because they know what they are talking about.  Panos described the reason pretty well, I think.
I have had problems with my lower bearing and although my boat is a bit smaller I have begun to nurture the belief that you don't want to get up earlier in the morning to lubricate your bearings to make them smooth, if you see what I mean. They should be made to meet the requirements of the environment they are supposed to work in. I would not try to lubricate any of the bearings. If they squeak or if you get any other kind of problem you should try to find the cause rather than to treat the symptom. Johan -------------  http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 27 August 2009 at 06:00
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If you look at the pictures I poster earlier, than you can see what happens to the shaft.
When I took the rudder out, I flinted the shaft, put epoxy around the area of the bearing and flinted it again. Not an easy job... So all the holes where filled with epoxy and with some strength the rudder did fit again. Gregor ------------- Uisge Beatha Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002) Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80 http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 27 August 2009 at 09:16
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Hi, I don't particularly like aluminium shafts .They are heavy and prone to electrolysis and they 'rust'. My first boat (from 1993) had an epoxy shaft. I wander why Hanse doesn't use a more advanced shaft/rudder unit. Or to offer it as an option? ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: tobo
Date Posted: 30 September 2009 at 11:03
My rudder bearing is repaired now. Total costs. EUR 2900.- (!) Here you can see see the old and new bearing. My comment: Schmidt happens (according to a story title in the German Yacht) (P.S. the boat is only 2 years old)
------------- Thomi |
Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 30 September 2009 at 17:37
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Good lord, that's a lot of money to spend after just two years. Any change on warranty?
Gregor ------------- Uisge Beatha Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002) Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80 http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu |
Posted By: tobo
Date Posted: 19 October 2009 at 13:53
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Sometimes the Gods are forgiving and have a heart for sailors. The final bill was only EUR 1500.- which seems a reasonable price (21h of work and the travel lifting)
------------- Thomi |
Posted By: Stella*Nova
Date Posted: 20 October 2009 at 09:32
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Thomi,
I'm surprised, don't you have a two year warranty law in Switzerland? Why wasn't the bill paid by the shipyard? ------------- BR Ralf, Ex. 'a mare' H370 |
Posted By: tobo
Date Posted: 20 October 2009 at 10:44
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Ups, I was just waitung for this question. But the answer is too embarassing for Hanse to tell you and they won't like me anymore. All I can say is that there are legal talks going on at the moment.
------------- Thomi |