Charm and problems of H 630, Duly answer
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Forum Name: 630
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Topic: Charm and problems of H 630, Duly answer
Posted By: sy.atanor
Subject: Charm and problems of H 630, Duly answer
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 11:01
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Dear's ship owners of Hanse 630,
I apologies to not to have spent enough words to describe the charm of this boat during my first letter, to make me forgive I will do’ it now. I need to underline the high nautical qualities, the unbelievable performance and the elegant lines of the 630 that execute the abilities to Judel/Vrolijk. This vessel is easy to maneuver also with few crewmembers and the pleasant surprise, she fly inclusive in the very light wind. Most of the materials used they are of good quality, however not always the assemblages are performed to rule of art and following the attached instructions. Despite, in conclusion she is a really beautiful boat. Nevertheless I have been enough amazed of the answer received from someone of you. It is probable that the experience that every one of us has had with Hanse and the seller is well different, as the attention devoted from the yard to find the solution at the problems of yours boat. It is also probable the analysis and the search of the imperfections was performs in different way. Skipping any personnel economic interest, is out of doubt that exist various problems to resolve before sailing safety with a Hanse 630, to ignore, it is not the ideal solution. For this reason I have offered to share my experiences with you, in less public and more discreet way. The perfection is not of this world, however of this world must be the humility to recognize the errors and find the solutions, trying constantly to improve. I hate to get into details, however you must know that, after two years and a half of stressful struggle, we are still waiting from the yard the solution of some of the serious problems what we have correctly communicated to them few months after the purchase. However in the respect of the safety rules and the common sense we have been forced to resolve many important defects of construction and assemblage in autonomous way and autonomous expense, with the help of specialized expert and technicians, after the yard has close de subject of the conversation with the magic sentence: STANDARD!! Enjoy your sailing, Gian Mario Santarelli Captain of Atanor |
Replies:
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 27 March 2010 at 16:42
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Dear Fellow
I don´t think you have to apology, nor I think after 6000 miles and 800 engine hours the Judel/Vrolijk design is so good. Let´s be honest with ourselves, will the hiding of problems help Hanse? I´m compiling a list of the problems experienced in the last 4000 miles, basically an atlantic crossing and a caribbean island hopping. We are now in Puerto Rico and the list is-belive me- long. 50% of the problems involved the Sparcraft rig which after a serious examination of each part and overall performance is the work of a plumber on a week end project. I´m looking for solutions other than replace the rig in full, but as I´m still working on it I´m just posting a new topic here in to work with other Hanse owners. ZENCAP
------------- ZENCAP |
sy.atanor wrote:Posted By: TAIMA
Date Posted: 11 May 2010 at 22:40
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Checking some of the old posts I just noticed that Zenyacht has done 6.000 miles with 800 engine hours on a Hanse 540. According to my estimates at average engine rpms the speed should be close to 7,5 knots x 800 hours = 6.000 miles?? Just asking? ------------- Thomas Pollehne Hanse 630/06 TAIMA |
Posted By: Athina Captain
Date Posted: 08 September 2010 at 01:12
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What luck. Just three days ago, loud bang and our rudder decided to fall off!!! But like I said, luck, the autopilot system was able to save it from completely dropping off the boat. So with the use of the bow thruster for direction and the rudder hanging under the boat, we managed to pull into port. There were no markings on the rudder, which could have meant we hit something. We did find a part that held the rudder sheared off cleanly, which meant the piece failed. Please have your rudder parts checked. Would not want this to happen to anyone else. I find this very serious and will be contacting Hanse for an explanation. I don't find it normal that rudders fall off boats! By the way, the Bamar furling system has completely failed and we hope Hanse also will provide a solution for this problem. No rudder and Genoa, bit difficult to sail the boat in those conditions...I am feeling quite let down, especially since neither Hanse, nor the Spanish importer are answering any of our requests for help...pity... As for Atanor, I wish them all the best in their endeavors. I have seen the boat out of the water and with serious delamination and other problems. In my humble opinion, not much more can be done for that boat. Doubt No.008 will ever be returning to the water. Sorry to be so pessimistic about this boat. It had so much potential, but sadly it fallen far short of expectations due to lack of build quality, but most important, the failure of certain importers to try to find solutions to those problems. Does the boat sail well. Yes it does, when something is not stopping it from doing so. In the last three years, one was spent out of the water trying to solve some serious problems. Another was spent trying to sail, but finally pulling it out of the water for another 8 months to try to once again solve the problems. Finally, last winter, when it was expected to sail to Caribbean, it spent 5 months out of the water trying once again to solve more problems. Only to spend the last three months with constant problems and spending days on end in shipyards and marinas solving more problems. Culminating with the rudder falling off only three days ago. Happy sailing for those who can... 
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Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 01:30
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Dear Fellows
This attachment is a picture of a Hanse rudder. images speak better than words. ZENCAP
------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 08:39
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I have seen that picture before. What is the story behind it and to which Hanse does it belong?
I don't like pictures being taken out of their context so I am eager to know. Johan -------------  http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: TAIMA
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 14:32
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Hi Athina captain,
You explained the "rudder fell off completely" and that "it sheared off". The picture looks like a delamination or ripping off of the pu foam and epoxy cover of the rudder. Would you please explain what you think happened. Did the rudder stock fail or break ? Did the stock just shear off? Have you had any electrolisis problems on the rudder stock, like I understand Atanor had? Have you hit something in the past even slightly which could explain water being absorbed by the foam and delamination ? What we see on the icture happened during the big bang you describe?How can the autopilot system avoid the rudder from falling off? The autopilot is just a motor connected to your Jefa Steering gearbox and from this box there is a steering rod connected to the rudder quadrant, so what did the pilot do to avoid falling off?
I really would like to know more on this subject and start to look at the right places on my own boat. Mine is Nr 5 and I just have it in drydock for the yearly mantainance and antifouling jobs so I could take advantage and examine my rudder system. ------------- Thomas Pollehne Hanse 630/06 TAIMA |
Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 14:43
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The picture you see above posted by ZENCAP is from a 371! Zencap should have written this, this would be more fair!!!! It has nothing to do with the problem from Athina Captain. Look what Johan wrote. Using a picture from somewhere without any useful commennt will lead into the wrong direction. Look here http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=701&KW=rudder+failure - http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=701&KW=rudder+failure ------------- Blake 370 
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Posted By: TAIMA
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 17:52
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Hi All,
thanks for clarifying, I wrongfully related the picture to the Athina case. Would be nice to hear from Athina captain and maybe see some pictures so we can understand what really happend. ------------- Thomas Pollehne Hanse 630/06 TAIMA |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 20:02
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Dear Fellows
Hey!...Wait a minute I haven't said this pic is from Athina. Did I? Just for thr record. I can say now that similar delamination problems hapenned in a 540 in Spain. this pic is NOT out of context. Nor I'm trying toi mislead anybody. So don't take me wrong, We are not inventing anything. Do you want to see pictures of broken booms and vangs.....rusted cv joints, I have a good collection. All are real All of them from HANSES ZENCAP
------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 20:09
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Dear Taima
The upper ruder bearing holds the rudder up. The lower rudder bearing self aligns the rudder. It doesnt hold anything The autopilot tiller arm also holds the rudder shaft in the event of shearing the upper rudder bearing. Acts as a safe "bracket" Note that many hanses are not equiped with the Jeffa electric drive supplied by lewmar and got different autopilots ( like the Raymarime hydraulic unit) ZENCAP
------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: greeksailor
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 21:19
| by chance I see this discussion. Sorry to tell you that Athina hit some rocks while in Greece last year and spent almost a year fixing the damaage. all they say here is ****sh*t. |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 21:40
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This reminds me a bit of the "exploding hull" thread. I just wonder if Santa Clause is somewhat involved?
Johan ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 21:45
Sorry, but I think it IS out of context. The picture shows a rudder from another boat. Just because it is from a Hanse doesn't make it relevant. Johan ------------- http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se |
Posted By: TAIMA
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 22:30
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Zencap,
I think you mean the rudder quadrant. This looks like a small tiller arm, but its the same arm on which the steering rods act or, if it would be the case, the wires are connected. This is not the autopilot tiller? As far as I know only the Hanse 630#1 Karina and #2 Gaga and # 3 Rastrelly had the wire system. I thought # 4 Athina already was equipped with Jefa steering as well as my # 5 Taima and all the subsequent Hanse 630 s. ------------- Thomas Pollehne Hanse 630/06 TAIMA |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 10 September 2010 at 00:53
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Dear Taima
You can see here an autopilot tiller. The tiller is not a quadrant is just a tiller, In case of the rudder supporting bearing failure. the rudder will be held by the tiller, hanging. by the way as you can see this tiller is broken. This is an EDSON autopilot tiller bracket that broke due to void pockets on the metal the same day was installed. Not related to Hanse. So don't ask if this pic is out of context. ZENCAP  ------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 10 September 2010 at 01:03
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Dear Greeksailor
Your profile shows you have joined this forum today. The type of language you are using says all about yourself. This forum is just for HANSE OWNERS sharing the good and bad experiences of Hanse ownership, and not for industry interested parties messing around. ZENCAP
------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 10 September 2010 at 01:08
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Dear Johan
The picture shows a rudder delamination problem that happened in several Hanse boats and not just on this particular boat. The picture also serve to show the inside structure of the rudder and that is one of the reasons of having that picture posted. Something very similar happened in a 540 in Barcelona Spain two years ago on a brand new boat during a seatrial. ZENCAP
------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: TAIMA
Date Posted: 10 September 2010 at 17:50
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Dear Zencap
I have the feeling that you are quite upset with some of us? If so please calm down and dont take this personally. We are all trying to understand the rudder failure occured on Athina, but it seems that you know more about that case ?. I never said you showed pics out of context I wrongly combined your posted picture with the Athina problem. Nevertheless the tiller you describe is what I mean under quadrant. Each steering system has a rudder a stock and a quadrant which transmits the forces to the steering system. This quadrand is not always a quadrant it can be a triangle or even just a tiller but I learned to call it a quadrant and in our case (630s) has nothing to do with the autopilot, from there my misunderstanding. I dont know if you have seen the 630/Jefa gearbox steering, but I can tell you the autopilot does not attach to the tiller, its just an electric motor drive acting on the gearbox. So this is just a misunderstanding and we both mean the same. If the tiller held back the stock on Athina, which sounds logic, the force to shear off the stock from the upper bearing must have been tremendous. The more curios I am now to find out what happened ? Please Athina show us the pictures and give us news. ------------- Thomas Pollehne Hanse 630/06 TAIMA |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 11 September 2010 at 10:00
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Dear Taima
Picture 1 shows a quadrant picture 2 show a tiller. The fuction is the same steer the rudder. Please note that not all hanses are created equal . As an example my boat has no quadrant as the transmission is Lewmar´s rack and pinion. Rack and pinion doesn´t use wire as a mean of transmission. Hanse changed several transmision systems on the 530 ,540, 630 series. Zencap
  ------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: ZENYACHT
Date Posted: 11 September 2010 at 11:45
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Dear Taima
By the way I´m only upset with people like greeksailor that is obviously an interested party and registered in this forum yesterday to put bad words and showing lack of education and respect to all of us ZENCAP çQUOTE=TAIMA] Dear Zencap I have the feeling that you are quite upset with some of us? If so please calm down and dont take this personally. We are all trying to understand the rudder failure occured on Athina, but it seems that you know more about that case ?. I never said you showed pics out of context I wrongly combined your posted picture with the Athina problem. Nevertheless the tiller you describe is what I mean under quadrant. Each steering system has a rudder a stock and a quadrant which transmits the forces to the steering system. This quadrand is not always a quadrant it can be a triangle or even just a tiller but I learned to call it a quadrant and in our case (630s) has nothing to do with the autopilot, from there my misunderstanding. I dont know if you have seen the 630/Jefa gearbox steering, but I can tell you the autopilot does not attach to the tiller, its just an electric motor drive acting on the gearbox. So this is just a misunderstanding and we both mean the same. If the tiller held back the stock on Athina, which sounds logic, the force to shear off the stock from the upper bearing must have been tremendous. The more curios I am now to find out what happened ? Please Athina show us the pictures and give us news.[/QUOTE] ------------- ZENCAP |
Posted By: Athina Captain
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 09:02
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Dear All, After the repairs on the part that holds the top of the rudder, we have been able to sail without any problems to Valencia where we will have to take the boat out of the water to see what is causing so much corrosion on so many parts. Apart from that, only the Bamar genoa furling system does not work and needs repair. Everything else we have repaired along the way, including an alternator which was repaired in Alimos, Athens, but was not properly reinstalled and came loose, breaking the engine belt, but luckily not much else. Bad workmanship :-( I will post pictures of the broken part when I get a chance. Unlike what Greeksailor said, the rudder never had any sort of accident. The surveyors of the insurance company carefully checked the rudder when we hit an uncharted rock off of Lefkada two years ago (not one year ago, like the well informed Greeksailor mentioned :-) and they cleared it as not having any damage of any sort. After the rudder failure, the insurance sent another surveyor who came to see the boat out of the water and once again cleared it as perfect. They have concluded that the piece sheared off, possibly by defect. Lets keep in mind that this boat, before it was handed over in Spain, had an accident while being transferred by the importer. The keel had to be taken off and repaired. Keel bolts had been sheared, so it was pretty serious. So if during this accident the rudder was damaged, we will never know. Although I doubt it since both times that the insurance company saw the rudder, it was in perfect conditions. So lets not blame anyone for something that is not the case. So in my opinion, I just think it was a part failure. Luckily all we lost is time and around 3000 euros for out-hauling and repair. As for what held the rudder hanging below the boat, it was the cables from the Jefa steering system. They held up quite well, but might need to be replaced because of the loads they received. As for corrosion on the rudder like Atanor, we did not see any. Although the rest of the boat has some serious corrosion issues which we asked on numerous occasions both the importer and Hanse for a solution, but have not received any answers. This should not have happened, when I get time to sort it all out, I will have to contact the importer for an explanation, but I assume I won't get an answer, as is usual for them. Hopefully Hanse will be able to solve the mystery. As for complaining, yes these are reasonable complaints since all these problems have been surveyed and sent to the importer, with no answers or replies with no solutions. I guess anyone with a boat with so many problems would do the same if no one tried to fix them. Let it also be noted that Hanse DID do a wonderful job solving the problems that initially plagued the boat after the importer tried to avoid finding a solution. My hats off to them. But since then, the importer has been of no help and I am still waiting for Grant Perry, from Hanse, who said he would get back to me with solutions to these problems, but has entirely disappeared. So once again, the boat is great to sail, Hanse is a decent company, but somehow, we have a boat with some serious problems and no one seems to want to solve them. That is a pure simple fact, and I think it needs to be addressed by someone. Happy sailing |