461 / 470 - Leak into the aft cabin at roof level

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Leak into the aft cabin at roof level

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Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 461 / 470
Forum Description: 461 / 470 Hints and Tips
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3713
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Topic: Leak into the aft cabin at roof level

Posted By: graemefromdownu
Subject: Leak into the aft cabin at roof level
Date Posted: 01 March 2010 at 20:21

Can anyone offer any advice. After the very heavy rains in Spain we returned to find the bilges with 4" of water and wet mattresses in our aft starboard cabin. Water has been leaking from the junction of the ceiling and the common wall between the shower and the bedroom. It is freshwater. Above it lies the channel where the halyards run from the mast to the jammers.

Despite a careful search we can't find how the rain is getting into this spot. Has anyone else experienced this problem or have any suggestions?

Thanks.

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461: Dreamtime Wanderer, on her way to Australia.

Replies:

Posted By: John Allison
Date Posted: 03 March 2010 at 06:57

We did have one leak from the fitting of one mainsheet point to the deck. These take a lot of load and we had one bolt break - and the fitting came part away from the deck. Meant rain running down the sheet to the fitting then came below decks. Where it then ran behind the headlining to a low point and dropped to the floor. Our deck fittings had rubber boots so the issue was not apparent until we saw the leak.

But afraid to say the only way you'll track back the leak is to remove the headlining and use a mark one eyball. We also had another more serious leak in our forcabin which showed water close by the wall - turned out to be the mast seal failing - but water coming in there simply ran along the back of the headlining until it got to the wall.

Best get it checked quickly as the light / switch fittings are not marine grade - so they do rust / corrode.

Good luck

JOHN

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No longer a Hanse owner - but loved the one we had!

Posted By: graemefromdownu
Date Posted: 14 March 2010 at 19:40

Thanks John.

I took the mast seal plate off and there was signs of shrinkage and leakage past the rubber so hopefully the added sikkaflex seal will deal with one leak source. However water is still making its way to the aft cabin. I removed the lining in the shower/toilet (the cabin roof lining is going to be a b-- of a job if I have to remove it! No signs of water on that lining.

I hosed down the roof in the vicinity of the sprayhood / sliding hatch cover / halyard lines cover and lo and behold that may be the entry point. What I can't understand is how. The deck appears to be basically a large one-piece moulding with the halyards channel cover "sikkaflexed" all along its length on each side of the moulded channel. The sliding hatch cover appears to be similarly attached. I can't see any other entry points in the channel or cover moulding. I can see that the sikkaflex on both pieces has shrunk a bit and has thin hairline cracks in it, but that shouldn't affect the integrity of the coachroof moulding itself. The only question in my mind is whether there are some sort of fasteners from inside the coachroof holding the channel covers in place; surely Hanse wouldn't just rely on 2 strips of glue to hold things in place, particularly when I have 2 teak handholds running the length of the cabin and attached to the halyard channel cover.

I hope my descriptions make sense. If anyone else has had similar leakages how did you get the roof linings off in the cabin (mine have nice neat silicon seal beading all around their edge!).

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461: Dreamtime Wanderer, on her way to Australia.

Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 14 March 2010 at 22:59

Hi,
We had some water leakage problems through the cabin roof. Mainly because of the Lewmar hatches, that have been replaced under warranty.
To find the cause of the leakage and to install 2 additional speakers we had to remove the cabin roof lining several times. Its easily done since the lining is just attached by VELCRO strips. The coach-roof handlebar is also easy to remove once you remove a rectangle decorative piece hiding the screws. No sign of the removal is visible.

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Panos

Hanse 630e - selling her -

Posted By: leemind
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 14:02

Oh so appropriate timing... a thread on leaks!

After the initial leaks on delivery and the main one that I fixed that was where the mast passes through the deck, we have been leak free for 3 years...

Until this winter. During the recent heavy rains water was coming in at a fair rate in the forecabin and to a lesser extend in the salon. Both manifesting itself through the light fittings. Unfortunately in the forecabin, enough water got onto the wooden shelves that it soaked into some end-grain and has discoloured.

However, I am also at a lost to explain where it is coming from. I have exactly the same thoughts as Graeme. I thought it was the mast again, but a new rubber seal didn't help for the forecabin leak and the saloon, I also can't figure it out.

Since I also have a 461, the headlining is beautifully sika'ed in and no way to remove it without making an almighty mess. (Actually, I have to say, the general level of workmanship regarding the sika/silicon is outstanding. I've never ever achieved that quality of join!)

Interesting point Panos makes... maybe it is the hatches???

David
461#028

Posted By: graemefromdownu
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 16:13

Its Winter! I think as much rain has fallen on the boat as it floats in...

Glad to see I've not lost the plot, yes, the ceiling is beautifully sealed with Sikka - Everywhere. My thoughts are still on the water somehow getting at some point(s) where the halyards run to the cockpit. When I put a gentle hose down the mouth of this channel water did appear in the stern cabins, especially the starboard one. I poked a strong light into the channel and there are guides sitting in a steel U-shaped support down the length of the channel; I have wondered if the fixings for this guide are leaking. I wrote to Hanse UK who said one of their people would write to me and explain how to remove the covers but to date no further correspondence.

I find the most annoying thing about Hanse is the lack of (any) decent documentation. Just some straightforward plans showing access points, how things are attached etc would be great. I wanted to add a freezer into the coolbox, but again no-one can give any suggestions. Everything is put together as if it will never need access again, EVER. On the other hand, I think the build quality on the 461 is excellent compared to some.

If I get any further joy I will copy to you.

By the way, did you fit a new anchor roller and move the windlass as described by John? It now works much better for me but sometimes I get a squealing from the windlass and it seems to slip on the clutch - any ideas?

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461: Dreamtime Wanderer, on her way to Australia.

Posted By: John Allison
Date Posted: 15 April 2010 at 17:11

Hi Graeme,

Re the windlass you can take the clutch apart and give it a light sanding. We found the squeals came from it slipping orginally under load, and polishing the faces. Sand, tighten so no slippage, and it stopped.

Agree 100% about the lack of paperwork. I recall with nostaligia the four printed and handbacked books / manuals we got with our last Grand Soleil - one each on Rig, Sails and Deck Gear, Mechanics and Electrics, Plumbing and Services, and one just on layout.

Oh to get even one from Hanse............

I suspect they sim[ply let things run away up front when thet were truly very busy building boats. It never got started and then when the floatation and then crunch came it became 100% profit focus so it was almost 'lets build to a price and not do more' so ideas like documentation ended in the 'too hard' basket.

Plus I know they felt their way on each early build and continually made slight adjustments each time making ongoing documentation harder still.

For example when we orginally had electrical issues which we got sorted in Mallorca 2006 (by a German who spent hours phoning the factory) they categorically stated someone much have modified our loom and it 'would never be supplied like that'. But clearly they did! So frustrating.

Re your leak - yes I'd strongly suspect the rollers under the rope covers (there are two sets of rollers each side on our 461 to guide ropes from mastbase to clutches) may well not be sealed correctly - but you'll need to get that headlining off to check them out......

Enjoy

JOHN

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No longer a Hanse owner - but loved the one we had!

Posted By: SparxSea
Date Posted: 15 April 2010 at 20:44

Hi Graeme, check the seal on your emergency tiller hatch. Apparently water was leaking into our back cabin through that and we now run some waterproof/water resistant grease around it. Originally, some very clever person put silicon sealant all around it and of course meant the emergency tiller hatch could not be opened and took us a long time to be able to dissolve it and get it working. Might possibly be one source of your problems.

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'Sunboy' Hanse 470e

Crusing to infinity and beyond!!

Posted By: graemefromdownu
Date Posted: 15 April 2010 at 22:23

Thanks for the advice. I was able to contact a great guy in Windermere (Hanse UK) who was able to tell me that there are two sets of guides in the channel and to access them I just have to cut away the sikkaflex holding the covers to the hull.... No bolts or screws. So all I need is a good long warm day and a supply of Stanley knife blades!

Having taken this on board, if you have your liferaft secured to the hatch garage (as mine is) we may be relying on a thin wedge of Sikkaflex to stand between us and disaster should you ever get heavy seas over the cabin roof. Mine is going to the stern at the earliest opportunity.

As an aside we also talked about other 461 maintenance jobs. He suggested keeping an eye on the steering rods and their nyloc nuts, have been known to vibrate loose. Also to make sure the tube surrrounding the rudder post is protected from foreign objects falling in and fouling the needle roller bearings. He also suggested I check if the boom is using three mounting points for the main instead of two. Not that as far as I know any 461's have had boom problems, but all the same!

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461: Dreamtime Wanderer, on her way to Australia.

Posted By: Loek
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 18:17

My name is Loek Wollersheim and my ship is a 461 Name Shuttle date 2005.
The first 2 year I had about the same problem. Water leaking allover and no idea where it came from.
After 2 year of searching I asked the Dealer to remove the covers on deck where the ropes go to the mast. And we found screwholes in under the kit. In Greifswald they use to fix the cover temporary with screws while the kit is hardening.
Hope this is usefull.

Good sailing,
Loek

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Loek

Posted By: landlocked
Date Posted: 03 May 2010 at 22:35

Just to add to the data, I noticed the same problem on my 2006 400. I had removed the covers for the cabintop lines and had hosed and scrubbed out the accumulated dirt and later found some water leaking out of the port cabin headliner.

In my case the covers are screwed down, with sikaflex only around the screw locations. I thought the water must have entered through the screw holes when the cover was removed but haven't proven that.

Our boat has one set of "deck organizer" blocks just where the lines turn toward the mast so that is another potential point of ingress.

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"Kerkyra" 400e #042

Posted By: Magma
Date Posted: 11 May 2010 at 16:21

I have a new 470 and one of the commissioning items was a leak into the aft port cabin. The source of the leak was the ball and socket arrangement assiciated with the emergency tiller connectin point. The assembly should be sealed around the ball / socket connection arrangement with vaseline. Our problem was quickly resolved by the Hanse commissioning engineer. Hope this may help?

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Boxster