545/548 - Buy in Australia or Europe

Buy in Australia or Europe

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Topic: Buy in Australia or Europe

Posted By: Cryptonomicon
Subject: Buy in Australia or Europe
Date Posted: 23 December 2010 at 11:51

Been day dreaming of buying a yacht - a 545 actually and cant quite work out the difference in list price between Australia and Europe.

The base model in Europe is 275,000 EUR
in Australia the base model is 659,000 AUD or at current 1.3 AUD per EUR about 495,000 EUR.

Optioned you are looking at Europe 425,000 EUR and
Australia 875,000 AUD which is about 675,000 EUR

Now I can see 15% tax added in Australia and can even see a significant amount for shipping

But does this really add 200k + to the price.

Or am I looking at an out of date AUD price from back when the AUD was low and the EUR was strong? (Sometime before the PIIGS sat on the Euro and China bought Australia)

Replies:

Posted By: graemefromdownu
Date Posted: 26 December 2010 at 09:15

Hi, I hope I can add some light to your query, it's one I've also looked at but from the other end.

We own a Hanse 461 (second hand) partly with the intent of sailing her back to Australia. It takes some time to get a handle on all the ins and outs and I still don't know what the actual realistic sale price will be in Aus for a fully loaded ocean going cruiser! I have also tried to find out what the rules are for running my own business chartering your own boat out of Qld, safety requirements etc but for obvious reasons the existing charterers are not interested in telling me the do's and don'ts. If I can establish a simple basis then I can claim back the GST from running such a business.

However, attached are some links which will answer some of your questions and perhaps give you some ideas. One sailor I have been following on his blog told me that they only calculated the delivery cost from his last port of call (Noumea I think) but I am yet to find out from him how he actually dealt with the GST and duty and boat value. I guess in some things you have to be circumspect, the web is no longer private.

The links below have been v useful and interesting.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/importing-a-yacht-from-us-to-australia-14084-3.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/importing-a-boat-to-australia-3346-10.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/importing-a-boat-to-australia-3346-20.html

http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/psycocustoms.html

The last post below is one that does concern as customs rules seem contradictory. We will be travelling with myself and son as Aus passport, my wife as UK passport. We will have to get her a visa somewhere just before we arrive, yet if we came on a larger vessel she as crew could get a visa on arrival. Government always concerns me as they have more money and more resources and a system that just runs under its own momentum.

http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/customsresponse.html

Hope all this info assists you.

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461: Dreamtime Wanderer, on her way to Australia.

Posted By: Wild
Date Posted: 27 December 2010 at 08:54

Hi,

About the price setting Europe against Australia,I will mention to you that de Aus.dollar haved rise some 20% against the Euro in one year.The pigs and the chinees ,you know.

And in Europe (its depends in which country you buy)you pay some additional tax added value(TAV) of 20% if you buy as private person.I think on the moment the UK(15%) is the cheapest,in Belguim the TAV =21% now.If you stay out of this country and do not leave the boat longer than 6 months in one period in a other europeen country(for a longer period costums have the right to let you pay TAV to there country if you dont can prove that you have payed elsewhere in Europe ), you dont have to pay the TAV.

Get good information for this but lot of europeen sailers ,who sailing arround in Europ and the world, do it this way

All this togehter rised the price from 425.000+current difference 20% = 510.000 then the 21% TAV = 617.000 EURO.

if you added the price of the transport to Australia,example :transport from Hanse Greifswald to France or Slovenia med sea Max 2.000 Km by road = between 13.000 and 15.000 Euro exl TAV = 635.000 than the diff is not so big anymore.

Pricecomparison is trikky but thry to get a BIIIIIIIIG discount from your dealer

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Wild and Wet
Belgium
545e#268

Posted By: graemefromdownu
Date Posted: 28 December 2010 at 22:06

Hi and hope to add some more thoughts.

I'm not sure WILD is right in adding all the figures. I would suggest you contact Hanse UK (Peter Thomas) www.hanseyachts.co.uk
they have an excellent sales and after-sales service (no commercial connection to me but they have been great with advice and knowledge). Get a price Ex VAT as you require with all extras. They can advise you on VAT situation but as far as I know if you export the boat from the UK within a certain timeframe and never stay in one EU country more than 6 months there will be no vat.

Shipping as deck cargo will be expensive, I was quoted over $US40,000 from the Med to Australia. On top of this wound the government will tax you GST & duty on the freight cost. However sailing from Noumea or NZ or somewhere close will be a relatively small cost.

So, to summarise, the most cost-effective answer is to sail from Europe to Aus. You can get some good deals over here as well in terms of boat and extras. You would need to allow at least 3 months to do local sailing and get all the problems ironed out by the dealer before you set off across the Atlantic.

You may want to have a look at the blog by Sunboy the Sailboat (http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Korora-4-on-Tour)
it is a great read as well as full of lots of ideas and experience.

Regards, Graeme

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461: Dreamtime Wanderer, on her way to Australia.

Posted By: Cryptonomicon
Date Posted: 18 January 2011 at 06:03

Reading through lots of Hanse posts there also seems to be the dealer issue. It seems that there are quality issues down the dealer chain with the saying "Your Hanse is only as good as your Hanse dealer"

So far haven't read anything bad about Windcraft - but still not sure they are worth an additional $200k.

In terms of GST and VAT that one is swings and roundabouts. You don't pay European VAT but you do get hit with Australian GST as well as import duty.

Possibly find a good UK dealer. Buy in the UK and shake it down for a few months there before hitting the Altlantic and Pacific. Not sure I would like to do that before all the bugs had been fixed.

Not sure buying in the UK and direct shipping over without a shake down would work. Getting the Windcraft to support a yacht they didnt sell may be asking a bit much.

To my mind the AUD going up and the EUR going down means that any prospective Hanse customer in Oz could be realistically thinking about the next boat up in the range and people who couldn't afford one at all now can enter the market.

It is also making second hand yachts unattractive. You can get a new Hanse these days for the same AUD cost as a couple of year old second hand boat.

And then again it may be as simple as asking Windcraft in Australia to fix their website to reflect the change in exchange rate.

It must be in their benefit to drop their prices - will have to hassle them.

Posted By: Phuketsailor
Date Posted: 22 January 2011 at 21:31

Hi guys,

even though I have not struck a deal with them for my Hanse 545 which I bought last year, I guess you will find a competent and reliable dealer in YPM in Malta. The advantage of these guys is that they are very experienced sailors who HAVE to properly prepare the boats before delivery to their customers:

They are receiving the yachts they sell in Southern France at the Hanse base and deliver them to the customers out of Malta - mainly for VAT reasons - , so they have to sail the 500 odd sm from France to Malta by themselves and on this trip they figure out a lot of the production related flaws. They also need to make sure that the boats actually work before they go on their transfer journeys from France to Malta.

The YPM guys I met seemed to be very experienced and reliable. They had a good knowledge of the boats and even openly discussed improvements they suggested to their customers.

They told me that there are yacht transport ships going from Malta to Australia, so also the delivery could be easier than via an GB dealer.

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Best,

Phuketsailor

Posted By: SparxSea
Date Posted: 15 February 2011 at 03:22

Hi Hanseowners and intending owners, there are so many arguments regarding the benefits and detractions of buying a boat in Europe and sailing it back to Australia. As we bought our boat in Europe and did that journey I can only comment on the value of the journey from a sailing / family once in a lifetime experience point of view. Since we returned to Australia I had to have some warranty work done on the boat and took the boat to the Australian dealer, Windcraft Australia, in Pittwater. I have known Peter, Mary and the team there for some time during our searches to buy a Hanse but never having purchased a boat from them, I had no prior experience in their after sale service levels. The quality of the service I received from Windcraft caused me to write a personal correspondence to Michael Schmidt as it was, to me, simply exceptional. The level of attention to my boat and the quality of the workmanship carried out was second to none and I simply could not believe how well I was treated. As I outlined to Mr Schmidt, it was the best service I had ever received in any form of commercial arrangement. I guess this is one of the reasons why Windcraft have been designated as Dealer of the Year for so many years. I know the various forums complain about some of the dealers but we can only speak from our experience, that being with Windcraft and also with Phil and Peter from Hanse UK who were also fantastic guys to deal with and did so much to help us when we were in the UK buying our boat through a second hand broker. With regard to price differences between the two countries I think the best thing to do is to sit down and speak to the Australian dealer(s) and find out exactly what is being offered for sale as part of the boat package and get them to compare and comment on any price anomalies, especially now our dollar is so strong against the UK Pound and EU Euro. The great thing about having a Hanse is the wonderful help and support the owners provide to each other and also those who are considering buying a Hanse. The depth of knowledge and experience out there is invaluable and it appears that there are very few who are not prepared to help out.

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'Sunboy' Hanse 470e

Crusing to infinity and beyond!!